There is only ever one ‘abuser’ and one ‘abused’…

[AbuservsAbused]

This is about a family member of mine, who I won’t name or state relation for fear of outing myself and them.

Since I can remember, this particular family member has stated that most people in their life have abused them in some form. This extends to their parents, siblings, intimate partners, and now, even their children. They are under the belief that there can only ever be the person who is abused, and the person who is the abuser. They do not believe in mutually toxic relationships.

The reason why this is an issue is that they themselves act in an abusive way, even to the extent where their own teenage children no longer live with them (they have moved in with one of my family members alleged abusers) and they are fast becoming estranged and damaged as a result. When they are confronted about their own abusive actions, they will blame everyone else and say they are only reacting to the abuse of others. For example, when their children express hurt at the way they’ve been treated, they will be told that they themselves are abusers.

I question their narratives of abuse they have suffered, as abuse to them can be as little as disagreeing with them. Any argument they perceive as a great injustice against them and abusive. I also have relationships with several of their alleged abusers and they do not, in my opinion, act abusively. They have shown me messages exchanges they have had with my family member, and the messages they have sent do not fit the narrative that my family member then tells me and others.

They have do have diagnosed mental health disorders, again they will blame their mental health on the abuse they have suffered. There are some disorders they haven’t been diagnosed with but they definitely fit the description of, namely narcissistic personality disorder and victim syndrome complex.

I appreciate this is a really complicated topic, but I am wondering whether this idea that there is an only ever one ‘abused’ and one ‘abuser’ is actually a widely accepted thing? Also how I can help my family member, as they are alienating everyone (including their own children) with their behaviour.

If anyone has dealt with anyone like this in their life, advice would be greatly appreciated. I have thought perhaps I just need to let them get on with it, as nothing anyone seems to advise or say seems to make any difference as they are always the perpetual victim.

All very peculiar

I can’t work out your role in this and why you’re focussing so much effort on understanding

As stated, it’s a family member of mine whose children are now being alienated and abused as a result. I’d like to understand them or help them if possible, because it’s getting to the point of being unbearable and where they will end up damaging their children forever.

It is possible for two people to both act in an abusive manner in a relationship.

That doesn't sound like what's happening here at all. Far more likely is that your family member is a covert/vulnerable narcisist with zero ability ot take accountability or responsibility for their actions and believes that everyone else is to blame for everything that goes wrong in their lives.

The fact that this person claims the children are abusive is, in itself, a huge red flag. Children can absolutely behave appallingly and in abusive ways. That does not make them abusers. More likely, it's because they have been poorly parented and/or subjected to trauma and/or it's an age/stage thing. Good, loving, responsible parenting would help to mitigate this and turn things around.

INcidentally, it's very unlikely that any additional details would be outing. Because unfortunately, peoeple like this are all too common and the tactics, complaints, statements are depressingly familiar and the same. It's called a "playbook" for a reason.

Well the children have moved out

Oh, ad in my opinion, the best thing you can do for the children involved is to cut contact with the family member and prioritise building a relationship with the children, supporting them, and demonstrating healthy familial relationships. You could also show support to the children's parent who is the one the children are living with.

Only professional help is going to help them here. They need both a professional and someone seen as a neutral party.

The teens have moved out
Their mother sounds like she’s suffering from a mental health illness OR she’s just an awful abusive person

either way, doesn’t sound like you can do anything

It's a rabbit warren for sure but I would suggest that you can't change a person like this so there's no point really trying. The best you can do is move away from them if you can. If you want to understand them better, then there are plenty of stuff online. Someone like Ramani Durvasula is very vocal on this topic.

I don't think it's as straightforward as 2 people being abusers. I believe there are varying degrees of abuse and architypical roles that surround it...for example you have the 'enabler', who facilitates and doesn't stand up to the main abuser. I would argue they are as guilty as the abuser themselves even though they may not be actively dishing it out. Sometimes it's a family system of abuse and a culture of silence, power and control who all members play a facilitating part.

Lastly, in reality, hardly anyone ever actually gets diagnosed with NPD due to lack of insight or willingness to explore on the part of the person with it, and secondly because of the stigma attached to it. They can't be changed and it's as simple as that, I would distance.

This thread is actually a little triggering for me becuase I have seen this in person. And in particular, the abuser often creates an environment where the other person says/does things that are also unacceptable. The difference is that the other person usually realises it's awful, often feels terrible about it, over compensates to make up for it etc. And, ideally, they move on and get away from the abuser in part because they realise it's turning them into a terrible person.

But. Mostly, I can't stand the narrative that the child is an abuser. I have seen this exact commentary from someone in DH's family and the child in question is a young adult now with significant problems in establishing a stable life. Because his father's behaviour and actions, and sick ability to get the rest of the family to view this teenager as someone who was terrible, has impacted his entire life. As far as I am concerned, the moment a grown adult attempts to label a child this way, that adult is showing me who they are and they are someone I want nothing to do with.

I do believe mutually abusive relationships. A relative of mine (I can't say as it's a very close relative) is in a long term relationship with a man. He has become physically violent on a few occasions. I believed he was the only abusive one. However my relative has told me some things that she does that are abusive like how her partner has to transfer his wage into her bank account when he gets paid and turns out this happened because he wanted to leave the relationship and put a deposit on a flat. He has to ask her for money and provide receipts of what he's spent it on and give her any change. She encourages their children to verbally abuse him, calling him a useless idiot and a waster as does she call him these things. She's told him before he won't see his kids if he leaves, he can't see his family or she'll leave and take the children. So in my mind hes physically abusive and she's verbally, emotionally and financially abusive.

Yes, my family member has one particular enabler, who has also been isolated from their own friends and family. I believe this is because they refused to put up with my family members behaviour.

It’s very difficult as the children want a relationship with this person, but it’s becoming clearer that they can’t. I suspected that there was nothing I can do to help. I think they need sectioning, but if it’s a personality disorder then it sounds like there isn’t much use in that anyway.

See, in my family members world, whoever initiated the abuse first is the abuser, and anything else is just reactive or retaliatory behaviours, not abuse.

I think it is sometimes hard to distinguish who initially abused and what is reactionary behaviour. Abusers can be very skilled at manipulating others to take their side. A lot if it comes from mental illness i think.

Narcissistic personality disorders. Can be very abusive but cannot accept criticism at all. My dm will lie, manipulate others, gaslight. You're paranoid, you misheard, you're a drunk etc, your dc is lying but it could not possibly be that i said that. I'm a victim, i've been abused all my life. She is incredibly abusive but if you just met her you'd think everyone else was from what she says.

Are you able to have any sort of relationship with her?

I visit for about two hours every six months and phone every few weeks. I wouldn't leave my dc alone with her.