to think my dd should not be hearing the f word in her class....

[frankiesbestfriend]

on a regular basis?

Having tried really hard to avoid using bad language in her presence and sheilding her from adult tv etc, my 7yo dd is coming home with tales of a boy in her class telling staff members to f off.

I felt quite upset to hear the words from her.
After an incident today in which a chair was thrown and this phrase was used at the teacher, I was fairly shocked to see this boy at the ice cream van with his mother.

If she had heard it in the playground I wouldn't feel so cross, but how long can this go on before it's effect on the other children is taken into consideration?

I can understand your concern - it sounds worrying.
Perhaps the boy has behavioural or learning difficulties?
If so, it sounds like he is not very well supported by the school.
Make an appointment to raise your concerns with the class teacher.

As long as it takes for you & other concerned parents to start complaining about it.

Talk to the class teacher, & if you don't get a satisfactory response, talk to the Head. At this point, start hinting about letters to the Governors &/or LA.

Our powers are sadly limited, but Head teachers do tend to sit up & take notice when you start suggesting you'll go 'above' them...

Thanks raven. So I'm not BU.
Will see teacher.

Where do they even learn these words?

my 7yo comes home every day having heared new words....they always come from the same 3 kids....

this week so far we've has the f word, piss, bollocks, vagina (shouted out at story time!) and lesbian (he was called it at playtime).

i was quite shocked at first, but i have used it as an opportunity to discuss these words with him. he knows some of them are bad, he knows some are very bad, he also now knows what a vagina and lesbian are....

i feel that although i would like him to be unaware of lots of things for a little longer, i cannot protect him from learning these things (only bothered by the swear words btw..)forever. what i can do is to explain stuff to him, so he knows what is and isn't acceptable to repeat in public, and to teach him that using these words isn't really that funny, but is just done to show off.....

oh, and no...i don't think you're being unreasonable at all.

There are children who struggle in mainstream education in a full class of 30. It's incidents like this and parental unhappiness that lead to something being done.

Imo, speak to either the head of dept/faculty or the head directly to express your concern about the violence and bad language, the behaviour iyswim, not criticism of the boy (whose background is unknown) or teacher (who may be v good). It's when you get supportive parents being concerned that alarm bells ring & action is taken.

It's unfortunate, frankie, but it's hardly new.

I started school in 1969, and when my mum asked me what I learned on my first day, I told her to fuck off

Where do they even learn these words?
From their parents.
Although me DD3 did share vagina with her friends recently.
They thought she was saying pyjamas...

I agree melly, and in fact dd has really impressed me by not repeating or using them outside of the context of telling me what has happened.[proud emoticon]

Still feel cross though.
Lesbian or gay would be different ( we had a chat about this recently),as would vagina, as I could turn those into a learning opportunity.
But Fuck off is a phrase I am offended by, particularly from the mouth of my child

From their parents? How can you be so sure?

You walk down any high street, any day of the week, and you'll hear plenty of people swearing. You can't shield them from it, unfortunately.

You can only tell them that's it's inappropriate.

I remember my dad coming to the gate to call us in for tea and he saw and heard me screech FCUK OFF to a dog that was annoying me

it was the last time I said it for about 10 years [smarting bottom]

I would mention it to the teacher but tbh, I don't think there is much you can do about it

I called my grandad a bastard when I was 7, but I only did it once.

If dd had only heard it once it would not be so bad, this is a regular occurence.

And I think for a child to use the phrase in anger to a teacher, they have heard it more than once, and not just in passing in the street.

Then go tell the parents, frankie.

What more can you do?

Different language, different culture, but I still learnt an interesting array of bad words when I went to school in 1970.

It's the fact that it occurred in the classroom that sounds a bit worrying, you'd expect most children to know to regulate their language in a teacher's presence- but you don't really know the context. The boy could have some medical problem- autism, Tourette's etc- which makes it difficult to control himself. Or he could be severely emotionally disturbed.

In dd's class, years ago, there was a boy whose behaviour was very disturbing; I found out much later about the absolutely tragic circumstances. The school did everything they could to cope with him, because he so much needed some normality. In the end he had to be expelled, but it was very sad. The other children did not copy him; they saw that he was struggling.

There is a local gentleman who suffers from Tourette's, he goes around the streets shouting 'fuck off' in the streets and then 'sorry'. And then 'fuck off' again. Not a problem with dc's; they know he is ill and can't help himself.

Tbh I wouldn't expect this boy's behaviour to have much effect on your dd as long as your parenting is firm and consistent and he is not her only friend or something. It is quite possible to explain, even to a much younger child, that yes, so-and-so does this or says this but you are not allowed to.

If people suffering from Tourette's never heard words like 'fuck', what would they say instead?

Children who suffer from Tourettes and dont know swear words often shout or scream- one I know of made animal noises.

Tbh, I don't feel I can approach his mum, she is of the opinion he is just 'spirited', and doesn't see his behaviour as that unusual.
Hence the trip to the ice cream van on the day of this incident.

AFAIK he has no recognised medical issues.

Feeling less cross this morning anyhow, my dd has not been copying the behaviour, she is well behaved and says she tries to avoid being near him when these situations occur.
Some parents not so lucky and their dcs are using the words they hear.

Don't talk to me about ice-creams for bad behaviour. The DS of one of my friends bit my DD - so that his teeth-marks were clearly visible - and his mum (my friend!!!) rewarded for upsetting her by buying him an ice-cream. I am still cross about it...

Regarding the OP, I would personally be horrified if a child in DS's class used such language even in the playground. If one of his classmates said it in the classroom, I would go straight to the head. Even if he does have some kind of problem, that kind of language should never, ever be heard in the classroom. Thank goodness your DD is obviously sensible and well brought up.

Aw thanks Dottoressa

Am helping out in class this afternoon so will try to have a quick word I think.

mind the flying chairs...

IME children who regularly use language like this in school have heard it regularly at home, probably directed at them. PLus the chair throwing - there are obviously behavioural and emotional issues going on here - if no medical / psychological problems, then again probably due to home life?
Schools have to do all they can to include children whatever their difficulty - but also have duty of care to the other children. You have a right to know this is being done. Perhaps try talking to the classteacher informally first, to say that your dd was upset by what happened, and you're sure that there are procedures in place but could they tell you what is done for the other children to support them (ie circle time after an incident so they can say how they feel, discussion of acceptable language, rewards in the class for good behaviour, clear behaviour policy / consequences, risk assessment on this pupil as he has been violent to keep children and staff safe...all these things are recognised good practice, some are essential for school to do especially if they do end up excluding!)
Classteachers can feel very similar - we have quite a lot (!) of children like this at school and the hardest thing for teachers to accept is the effect on other children. FWIW, with all the above support in place, most of our other children cope well and don't start swearing and throwing chairs themselves! But as a parent too I know how I'd feel if it was a child in my dd's class.
[Hmm, am on maternity leave and keep posting on school threads...!]