To be annoyed that my flexible working request has been turned down

[workisanightmare]

I requested to change my hours from 9-5 to 8:15-4:15. It just suits my day better and would make my evenings more productive.

it has been turned down because I need to cover until 5, because my colleague can’t due to health issues. AIBU to be a bit annoyed about this?

What happens if you need short notice leave such as sickness?

I would look for another job OP, I don’t think they will change their mind as there isn’t really a solution to the problem of covering the office. They can’t change other people’s working patterns when they have been agreed, therefore they have no way of providing cover. Better to look for a job that suits you better. Unless you have a huge commute, 5pm isn’t really that late. If they are going out after work, can’t you just go straight from there?

Is the 3 months notice a rule for you? Or have they just advised that this is the best way of ensuring you get the leave you want?

I’m guessing it’ll mean the holiday gets cancelled at the last possible time Sorry, what does this mean? If they don't find cover they'll not allow you your holiday? That doesn't seem right.
And as a pp says, three months' notice for annual leave is unreasonable if it's just you.

OP, really you should have squared that request off at the job offer point. It doesn't say much for a company that isolates you from breaks with your colleagues etc. I'd definitely start looking else where, serves them right for leaving you out your own every day.

Re the annual leave we have a similar policy for things holidays longer than a week. It's not mandated but we do ask for 3 months notice, maybe its just a case of not being there long enough to know which "rules" are actually enforced.

Is there a reason you waited 6 months before putting the request in?

I don’t know. I’m guessing a manager would have to cover but I don’t think they’d be overly happy

They can cancel leave up to a certain point. So im guessing any leave I book would just get cancelled. For example I’ve been denied any time off over Christmas while everyone else has taken some.

That doesn't seem right at all. Maybe talk to ACAS.

You signed up to do a 9 - 5. You said that flexibility was discussed in your interview, but you've been there 6 months and never actually requested anything flexibility until now.

Other people who have worked there longer got there first with asking for the shifts they wanted. That is unfortunately how flexible working goes. You can't be granted flexible working to not cover the shift they hired you to cover if there is no one else working until 5.

That's your shift and they can refuse your request for these reasons.

I’ve worked in the same office for 23 years and I’ve seen employees be treated unfavourably many, many times. In every case it was because they wanted rid of the employee. Not saying it’s the case here, but they definitely don’t value you.

It’s not happened to me yet, but if and when it does I’ll leave asap. There’s no point staying when someone treats you like you don’t matter.

I can't see why they have done this. You have options though-you can look for a new job. I would agree the flexible working with your next role before you actually sign on the dotted line, though.

I’d be more than annoyed too when they in essence misrepresented the hours. It’s also quite toxic to exclude one staff members from socialising outside of work (lunch, drinks etc) because they’re covering for everyone else.

Regarding appointments and giving notice for time off I would look up what it says on your contract and bring it up. I think 3 months notice is frankly bonkers.

About time off the reason I’m saying to look into it is because for example where I work if you have a medical appointment they pay you an hour worth. Apparently everyone has been paid this hour over the years and I’ve been working the hours back like a sucker because my manager conveniently “forgot” to tell me.

Reading the thread, while it's absolutely fair for them to deny a request for changed hours based on business need, they're running the business in a really poor way and I'd recommend looking for another job, with this as the explanation. It's completely unfair of them to treat you differently just because you were the last to ask, and the annual leave thing is ridiculous.

This ACAS page on your rights around leave may be useful - it's not great and they can cancel, but just in terms of what's considered reasonable. That said, they don't seem to care about their relationship with you as an employee. If your company has an HR department and this team is a small part of a larger organisation I'd just flag to HR that they're running in this way. The management seem just about on the right side of legal with your hours request, but seem like they might do some dodgy stuff if they think they can get away with it.

Maybe it’s just me and wishful thinking but it’s clear to me they’ve completely lost control of the entire situation. If I was the boss I’d either be closing at 3:30 because that’s effectively what they do, or state that the new contractual arrangement would be that each person has to do one late finish a month. To me it’s worrying that I’ll be a lone, young woman leaving the office on an industrial estate alone, with nobody else around, in the dark.

Ok so it is a customer facing business. But the actual 'work' is done by people who leave at 3.30? I guess for whatever reason they need to look 'open' even if they aren't really? Presumably it must be lucrative to do this? It does sound annoying for you definitely.

I’d be looking for a new job.

Turning down a flexible working request in itself is not the problem. They need specific hours to be covered, and they have hired you specifically to do that.

But the two issues for me are:

Why talk about flexibility in an interview when clearly there isn’t any for your position? They have misled you.

The requirement for three months’ notice for annual leave is unreasonable and ridiculous.

I don’t know because by this point the people who do call after 3:30 say “hi Work, can you take a message for XYZ”, so they could just be leaving a message on a voicemail.

Can’t imagine a chronic health condition means someone can’t work til 5pm. I’m assuming the colleague starts and finishes earlier?

I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed that their flexible working requests are denied, even with the new rules and regs.

Larger companies have been taking advice on this for some time. I expect for the vast majority, if their employer wasn't agreeing to flexible working before, they won't be now. All that's different is that they'll have to put their justification for denying in writing, and that it must be for a 'reasonable' business-specific reason.

It's been left (deliberately) vague as to what constitutes 'reasonable'.

What kind of job requires 3 months notice for holiday?

In my offie you have to give the same amount of notice as the time off request. Want to book a week off? Give at least a week’s notice? Half day? Half a day’s notice.

Of course, you run the risk of the rest of the team being off and it’s refused, and realistically most people give more than that for a week or a fortnight, but 3 months is ludicrous unless there’s a very good reason.

I haven’t booked my time off for half term (next 2 weeks) but it won’t be a problem.

So many dire workplaces out there. And people just put up with it.

I think you should separate our a few things:

I would not go in with the line that it is so unfair that as the most junior person you need to have a working pattern that goes to 5pm rather than sharing that out. It is perfectly fine to hire someone to fill the slots others don’t want to do and that’s what they have done

HOWEVER this should have been made more clear to you at interview rather than implying it was movable. And the 3 months notice for AL is silly.

So leave 🤷‍♀️

I don't think they've lost control, I think they're just a shitty workplace living in the dark ages.

Last in-first out, last in-last choice of leave, last in - all the shitty hours etc all used to be very common practice in many places, but most business have evolved into fairer places because it's better for the business.

Do they leave you to lock up or does someone else do that?

I do hope you didn't leave another job for this one. It's extra shitty to lie about flexibility if someone is moving from another place, bad enough if someone is returning to the workplace after a break.

Ugh what a shitty employer OP. If they’d said at your interview that they weren’t flexible at all, that you’ll be working 3:30-5pm alone every day, they’ll have lunches and post work gatherings without you, and require you to give 3 months notice for leave I imagine you wouldn’t have taken the job! An employer treating the new junior member of staff this way is not a good one.