To think cat ownership should be considered more anti-social than it is

[airportfloor]

I am a single working parent. I live in a terraced house in a middle of the city. Each house on my street and the parallel one has a small yard. I have spent time and money to make my yard as attractive as it can be, putting in borders with a small number of plants, and some pots.

Neighbours on all sides have cats - some have more than one cat each. The problem is for me that cats are taking over my yard.

On a daily basis the cats dig up my planters, putting mud on the floor and pulling out plants. They do this because my border is the hippest place to shit. So now I have a border that on one side is kitchen herbs and the other side mud and cat shit. RANK.

I have to check before I can let my kids play out there because they also like shitting right by my door.

This morning I was greeted with a mass of pigeon feathers that I had to clear up where some unlucky bird saw its fate.

They knock over my pots, causing more mess.

In the summer I can't have my back door open because the cats will walk into my house. I was once in my bed and a cat came in my bedroom. They would come in every time the door was open if I left it. When I wfh with the door open I sit with a small water pistol so I can aim it at the door.

I have very little spare time of money and am furious I have to spend both of them now finding out how I can make my yard seem less desirable to cats, then putting this plan into action.

One of my cat-owning neighbours plays loud music and smokes weed in his yard but his two cats are more annoying than both those behaviours.

I have just seen one of the bastards digging out my borders again and am furious.

AIBU: yes, now you've put it so calmly and succinctly, cats have got a great PR team and people should consider that if they get a cat their neighbours have to put up with their shitty actions which could be mitigated by a nice packet of biscuits at christmas

NOT BU: get over it

[post edited by MNHQ at poster's request]

Dogs also kill wildlife. I’ve seen them killing rabbits and squirrels in the local park but nobody seems to cry about that.

Most people get cats from rescues unless they are looking for a special breed. They are only semi domesticated, and will exist whether people ‘own’ them or not. The horse has bolted on that one.

At least if someone takes ownership of a cat, it is more likely to be neutered. Just look at the problems that countries like Greece have, with millions of stray cats breading uncontrollably, having litter, after litter.

If you are in a terraced house the ideal thing would to be to put cat proof railings on top of your fence

"They're doing the anti-cat thing again."
"No worries. There'll be a thread complaining about you lot soon."

No, they would much rather moan about cat owners, who if anything, help control the population by neutering.

I think they should go back the 1st century and complain to their ancestors who brought them here in the first place!

imo cats are ok but all should wear collar with a noisy little bell to alert unwitting birds.
Doesnt stop them clearing out a nest of fledgling birds though 😢
I think there are certain smells they don’t like
maybe lemon juice
that might stop them messing up your garden

I think the countries where cats are expected to stay inside have the right idea tbh

Our cat came from a neighbours farm, from an accidental litter. She kills rats, which actually, was great when some neighbours down the road got chickens which encouraged rats, the rats didn't come in our garden!

I've also watched her murder a rabbit and then eat it brain first (she left the intestines for me to clean up). Such delightful creatures!

There are any number of articles on the internet undermining your whataboutery. Of course other things kill birds, but to ignore one of the major predators in the UK because of err deep sea fishing is demonstrable twaddle.

I don't understand your logic here. Responsible cat owners have their animals neutered and yet the horse has bolted? If all responsible cat owners had their animals neutered, surely the issue would be done in one generation? Unless you're arguing that irresponsible cat owners can be relied on to maintain the flow of cats? And I've never seen a dog kill a squirrel! I've seen one standing at the bottom of a tree barking at one, but the idea of comparing that to the millions and millions of birds killed every year by cats is ludicrous!

Absolutely.

"And I've never seen a dog kill a squirrel!"

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I know someone who has dozens of squirrel tails in her garden - tails of the squirrels all caught & killed by her dogs.

Some excellent whataboutery there.
I do get upset by dogs - they kill lots, off the lead on hills etc they disturb so many ground nesting birds, they sh*t everywhere and too many owners do not pick up after them, the surge in numbers and poor dog (and owner) behaviour post pandemic is horrid. They can be got rid of too.

Also the practice of "mist nets" (huge, nearly invisible nets) for large-scale bird trapping in countries like Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria. The nets and trapping lines are set up all along the Rift Valley/Red Sea flyway, one of the most critical migration corridors in the world, and are designed to catch as many birds as possible as they pass through during spring and autumn migrations. This used to be bad enough, but now that cheap nets can be bought from China, the nets and trapping lines are kilometres long and have severely impacted UK bird populations that migrate to/from Africa (e.g. turtle dove, nightingale, cuckoo). The trapped birds are either sold in markets, kept as pets, or consumed as delicacies.

And as you say, re the sea: commercial trawlers nowadays can have nets 50 miles long! Terrifying.

https://fishingandfish.com/how-big-are-commercial-fishing-nets/

Are there, though? Because I have previously tried to find studies, and there's actually very little out there. The only thing I could find was a study by the Small Mammal Society that was pretty inconclusive, IIRC.

Mr Countryside Alliance quotes a small study of 87 cats in Hampshire in his bloviated and opinionated puff piece, which is at least something, but strikes me as being a bit of a small sample size.

PP linked a study about non- lethal (but detrimental) effect on blackbirds from the presence of cats, which was new to me- and interesting.

But in the absence of further solid data, I tend to agree with the RSPB.

This has reminded of a post where a posters neighbour was getting a cat and popped around to tell the op and the other neighbours that she/they needed to pull up all the non cat friendly plants in their gardens.

Yes, you're absolutely right. There is definitely no connection between the lack of scientific research in this subject and the RSPB's failure to find clear scientific evidence proving that cats killing 40-70 million birds a year affects bird population. A cynic might - just might - consider the possibility that the major society focused on bird protection might, I don't know, commission research on this subject. But your identification of the fact that the only research available relates to 87 cats in Hampshire definitely proves your point that 40-70 million deaths somehow doesn't affect the bird population. Well spotted you!

Yup. It’s like smoking indoors. Some people need to have their behaviour policed, as they can’t/wont accept they’re irresponsible or that their behaviour is wrong unless laws are changed. Sadly the government have higher priorities than changing this archaic law.

Outdoor cat owners fail to keep their pet safe, are directly responsible for any animal their pet injures or kills, and cause enormous stress and upset to their neighbours, impacting how they live and how they can use their property. It is wrong.

I’m American, and I didn’t even realize until I started reading Mumsnet that cats in the UK roam around outside so much. I realize that the US has more predator animals than the UK, but over here, people think you’re hugely irresponsible if you let your cats go outside unsupervised/uncontained. The thought of some neighbor’s cat walking onto my property to poop and kill small animals is just gross.

My parents’ cats over the past 40+ years have all been indoor cats and they’ve all lived to eighteen or over (which the exception of one insulin-dependent diabetic one, who still lived to be fourteen). I’m guessing that people who’ve had outdoor cats over 40+ years probably don’t have the same track record.

Well tbf you could reverse that grossness with America's fondness for cutting cats toes off to stop them wrecking furniture.

Swiftly decreased in recent years and now illegal in some states. Lots of cat owners were genuinely not aware that there might be something wrong with a service provided by a licensed vet in professional good standing. What are UK activists and legislators doing about cats leaving shit and dead birds in people’s yards?

Sorry, where are you getting this 40- 70 million figure from??

Why would you think?

The people with the greatest longevity are often the ones who are fit and healthy do a lot of exercise, animals are the same. You can’t get proper exercise indoors.

I’ve never had a cat who didn’t live to be old.

So what. You've just said you've kept cats for 40 years.

You don't get to lecture when you have a barbaric history on cat keeping.

If you want to change the law then you need to take cats off free roaming. Fill your boots.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/how-many-birds-are-killed-by-wind-turbines-in-the-uk
https://protectapet.com/blogs/blog/uk-cats-kill-55-million-birds-each-year-should-you-keep-your-cat-contained
https://www.birdspot.co.uk/a-wildlife-garden/cats-and-their-impact-on-garden-birds

Cats killed on roads will bring the average age down.