To want to improve our lifestyle today and sell the property?

[preparingforthepileon]

I have NC for this because I am including a fair bit of financial info and I also think I am going to get a fair amount of stick. I am aware we are in a privileged position but I think these decisions of 'jam today vs jam tomorrow' are pretty ubiquitous and not income / wealth dependant (within reason) so I am hoping for some useful advice (and a different perspective) as well as the expected abuse

I work and my DP doesn't. I earn about 140-150k a year and he used to earn the same. We have two small kids. We don't live in london anymore but have a flat there which we used to live in. It's been valued at £1.35m and we have a £625k mortgage on it. At current interest rates it doesn't really generate any income once we have maintained it, paid the agent etc. but has appreciated in value a fair bit since we bought it.

The mortgage on our PPR is about £470k / 2.5k a month and I put everything over 100k into a pension so my take-home is about 5.5k.

We can just about manage (we don't have any car loans) on my salary with the current situation but it's tight.

I think we should sell the flat in London, pay off our current mortgage and invest the rest. That would give us a great standard of living now, even though only one of us is working. He thinks we should try and hang onto it. I am not a spendthrift but I am more 'jam today' and he is more 'jam tomorrow'.

Just to add we are both in our 40's (him late, me 40). He has about 500k in a pension, I have about 200k (I've only been contributing to mine for a few years) but we also have about 900k in other investments.

So my view is our situation is good and we should enjoy the lifestyle a bit more now.

What do you think? (hard hat on)

Am i being unreasonable to want to sell the property?

I’d sell, and take good financial advice re what to do with the proceeds.

I will check back later but need to get back to my job for a bit now. Thank you all for your considered advice. I really appreciate it.

You can still keep your expenditure down but invest the money in something a bit more diversified / that could generate dividends and longer-term returns (e.g. a stock market ETF - I am not providing financial advice).

This is something I have also thought as a compromise. So give a but more day to day spending but also keep a fair bit of the money invested.

If you sold it could you clear the mortgage on your current home with the equity?

What good are the assets and money for if you die tomorrow?

Live for now while you're in a position to do so, financially fortunate.

Never save champagne for a special occasion because every day you wake up is a special occasion.

Yes - we'd have a bit left over after clearing the mortgage. I have suggested we also buy a VW campervan 😃

Yes they could

Get rid of the flat, enjoy life now. You're already set up for the future, no point in paying 2 mortgages when you could pay none. Why pay interest when do not need to?

Don’t buy a VW necessarily though - many other vans offer much better value for money - more space - useful with kids , good quality for less than an VW which is paying for the name

a trip to a camping and caravan show would be a good idea to really understand options and why might suit you best

If the £900k cannot be touched then I would definitely sell the London flat and pay off your mortgage. You are pretty exposed right now if you got sick or lost your job.

I'm not a financial adviser, but I've done a lot of personal research on finances myself over the past 5 or so years and find this sort of stuff fascinating!

Firstly, i'd definitely consider talking to a financial adviser and probably an accountant too if you don't have one already. For various reasons, I personally don't have a "pension", but instead put money into private investments which are similar to a pension but much more accessible. In simple terms, if you took the £700K you two currently have just in your pensions alone, and instead invested in an ETF/S&P500, year on year you'd get a much higher return (conservatively, 8% a year which, of course, compounds). I should add, it depends person to person what is best - often on MN people are insistent on 'a pension' but very few people I know in real life put their money into an actual 'pension' for various reasons. They opt instead for other investments where they can eventually live off the interest paid.

You'll need to consider tax liability when/if you sell the flat. A friend of mine just sold a property (3 bed house) worth about half of what the flat is worth, but her capital gains and various taxes on it were eye watering - in her situation i think they maybe got about 50% in reality of what they sold it for). There are ways of mitigating that liability (I'm not suggesting you do this, but you could set up a company run by your husband which 'buys' the property and then you sell via the company - this is a very basic, very dumbed down explanation of something you could do, and I don't know your exact financials and personal positions, so I couldn't advise if that was a good idea or not, but if you're already doing a property renovation, you could run some of the costs through 'the business'.) Also your DH would be 'employed' so wouldn't miss out on his national insurance stamps and could make a voluntary contribution (if he isn't already doing that).
There are stipulations on this, so if you were to sell the house, you might be liable for capital gains even if it's been your primary residence, but I know of a few people who do this and that's how they are able to renovate their houses.

As PP have said, you need to make sure that if you sell the flat, you don't just 'fritter' the money, and I'd have a plan in place where you invest it in a trust, say, for your children and then you live off the interest for your year to year expenses (ie, a holiday perhaps, but the kids still have their 'pot' there waiting when they're ready.) You'd also get around inheritance tax this way as the trust can be in their name. With 500K in a trust, you'd get about 50K a year back (you'd pay tax on it but could afford to get a bloody posh holiday out of it!)

I personally wouldn't buy a depreciating asset like a VW camper van. It's a monthly liability and how often realistically would you use it?!

That said, if you hypothetically did run your "property business" as a corporation, you can get grants from the government for buying electric cars and they'd be tax deductable.

I'd be hesitant about having a second property to let out - the B2L market isn't as good as it used to be and i worry about being a landlord in this day and age.

You have £900k in investments that should generate £35k plus a year extra income that you could spend on your holiday in the US and your campervan without selling the flat, if you think you should keep that for the appreciation, not sure what your financial problem is. Or are you already drawing income from those investments?

I assume if you sold the flat you would invest that money and draw the interest as required for a bit more of a comfortable lifestyle.

I'd be prepared to be that this question would not be asked if it was the woman not working.

Sounds a good plan to me.

You could always buy a second property again in future if you wanted to but this is such an expensive time in life. I would prefer to have money for nice holidays etc and it’s not like you’re not being financially sensible in other ways.

Plus property prices aren’t rising as much anymore, or at all in some areas.

Another thing to consider is that the flat could become a problematic investment if something makes it unmortgagable and you're stuck with it. I only mention as this has happened to 2 people I know who have flats they used to live in London (one with subsidence, one with unsafe cladding). I'm sure neither would happen to you but that would be a factor in my decision making.

Do you both jointly own the flat and your house?

The flat we are selling is 50/50. The property we currently live in is just mine because we bought it after he quite his job so it was simpler that way. He did contribute to the deposit, though.

I was just about to ask who owns what percentage of what and how are things protected? Are you married? What happens to all the assets if you split? If you own the house you live in, who ends up as the owner if you sell the London place and pay your current home off?

Sorry I didn't put this in the OP as didn't want to {further} complicate my description of the situation but it's not liquid and doesn't generate an income. It's like a share of a family business but the valuation is solid and it's not risky.

Would your DP be happy to use proceeds for a joint sale to pay off a mortgage for a property that is solely in your name?

How much would you be prepared to bet?

Do you think if a woman in her 40s who had been earning £150k had stopped working and her husband was asking specifically about household finances then I wouldn't ask if she was planning on working again? Is that what you really think. Because you're wrong, it was a perfectly reasonable question.

I cleared my mortgage 2.5 years ago and there is no feeling like it.

The security it gives you is far better than possible future gain on property that is currently giving nothing in terms of an income.

You know that whatever happens, illness, disability, job loss, bereavement etc you will have a roof over your head that no one can take away from you.

If selling the flat leaves you mortgage free its a no brainer. I think you need to sell it to him in those terms. Include the fact that with no mortgage there will be no pressing him need for him to go back into his old career. He could use his time now to retrain for something less stressful and more holisitc for when the kids are both in school.

That said, £2 k a month "spends" not going very far means you are wildly overspending somewhere and need to look at that.

Given the increasing likelihood of labour introducing a property tax, the increased 2nd home council tax, ind increasing obligations of landlords, I think there is a risk of the value of your London property falling - I’d explore that with an estate agent. If they agree, and feel there is a market for your property, I’d think about selling it now before the value falls (and remember it may be valued at 1.35m but it’s already a buyers market so chances are you may not get that).

Is DH doing anything to keep his expertise up to-date (CPD on line etc) so that if/when he choses to return to work he will actually be able to?

I agree with @minipie and think you should have a bit more jam today.