To be fed up of the "home birth is risky" misinformation?

[everychildmatters]

Because clearly evidence says otherwise!!

Aren’t you a good mum!
is that what it is about?

@Goldwren1923 You've proved my point beautifully by being so rude.

@Goldwren1923 No - it's mainly used as a standard to check progress. Why do you think a busy NHS ward may want this information rather than allowing women to labour at their own pace?

I think the grouping of these things and the ‘trend’ towards these things being so important within certain groups are the reason I’m on here ‘arguing’ back.

Im really really concerned that in some groups there is an all or nothing approach to these things. In the case of the woman in the news goodness knows why she made the choices she did but I bet she was influenced by/ inspired by people doing it all ‘naturally’.

I would really love to champion the fact that you can take the best of these practices and also the best advice too for safety and medical support. That’s our absolute privilege.

For eg -

I had a hospitalised as natural as possible birth with a detailed birth plan that after each request had ‘unless you feel there is a medical risk to the baby’.

The midwife’s discussed each step with me and my honest opinion was that they enabled me to have a safe VB even though my baby was back to back and in quite an odd position delivering. I had midwife’s coming congratulating me on it afterwards. I would have been transferred much earlier if at home but probably disrupting labour and ending up with a section. The room felt calm and chilled for most of labour and the delivery with my husband fully involved holding a leg and my midwife’s cheering me on while helping position the baby out (not turning) was one of my most amazing memories.

I had my kids in a next to me for the first 6 months and then coslept from 6 months to 9years and 6years and didn’t use cry it out.

I breast fed for 2.5 years and 4 years but not fully exclusively and they had bottles to top up here and there over the first 6 months and then if they wanted when I returned to work.

We baby wore a lot, sat in the back when baby was in car, did naps mostly on us, baby led weaning, etc etc.

I didn’t quite feel like I had a ‘tribe’ with my second (I did with my first) as I felt that the tribe I may have had were all or nothing and in my opinion ignoring risks in the name of being a ‘natural mum’.

I would never have a home birth. I know too many stories of PP haemorrhage which no one knows are going to happen. I am wary of the theme of it being part of ‘being a good mum’ which sorry Op but your latest update shows that’s how you do see it and do promote it.

@CremeBruhlee Not sure I have ever heard of a woman choosing a hospital birth (which is what the vast majority of women choose) equating to being a "Bad Mum".
Now ask a home-birther.
You can even see it on here.

It IS bad when you aren’t given a choice, it’s actually a form of assault. I’m sorry that you can’t see that.

It’s not bloody assault

VEs can also detect face presentations, undiagnosed breech presentations, cord prolapse, a cervical lip if there is doubt. Even they have their place.

Think about what you’re saying, when you’re not given a choice about someone putting their fingers in your vagina? Of course it is assault. That is the law… and common sense.

I think certain women do feel pressure to ‘home birth’ as a package of natural parenting options otherwise why would women choose (as in the papers) to ignore risks and see it as a positive option.

Apologies though as it wasn’t you that linked it along with all the other natural approaches (it was kipperbang) but I do see that a lot.

I just wish new mums realise that it’s not an all or nothing approach and the hospital experience can feel quite natural too. I felt like I had a tribe of women with my and my baby’s best interests at heart along with my wish to go as natural as possible.

They can also introduce infection.

And like everything in life, they are a choice. But if a woman is coerced into having one (like many many women were during Covid, even after everything else had opened up and essentially gone back to normal) then it is a form of assault. And it may have been a 3 years since they have done this, but it’s all part of a culture within in the maternity services that has existed for a long time.

I didn't have a single VE during my four home births. I don't disagree, but they do have their place. Normally that should include information to the woman about why they think it's necessary and consent given.

Im sure that most women should be asked permission for VE though and the reason explained. That was certainly policy in my trust 11 years ago.

Of course they should and I declined mine. But if medically urgent then asking isn’t always practical.

Yes it surprises me how many people don’t realise this. It’s the same as any other situation- if someone puts their fingers in your vagina without your permission then it is assault.

You're not likely to be in a position where they can do a VE without your participation until you're in the pushing stage (if you have your baby on your back in stirrups). Then they don't need to do a VE to see how far you are along anyway (which isn't really necessary as the mother's body will tell you). It wouldn't have been possible for anyone to do a VE during my home births without my consent via getting in position, as I was ambulant through all stages.

@RedRobyn24 Totally agree. How abhorrent, during Covid, was it to be told "Your birthing partner can only be with you if you allow us to stick fingers inside you." Because that is what it boiled down to. I did clarify this with the ward who confirmed that was the case as I was aghast.

Some cultures see it that way and some cultures don’t, surprise - not everyone has the same culture as British.

@Goldwren1923 It's assault without consent.

In terms of the law it is assault here in the UK.

Maybe it isn’t in some other countries with different cultures but that can also be said for a lot of things 🤷‍♀️

When you first started this thread I thought you were being supportive of home births, but in an open-minded non-agenda driven way.
As it’s progressed, it’s become clear that you have an axe to grind about hospital treatment of birthing mothers and their babies, and that is why you are trying to deny the inherent risks of a home birth.

I don’t think this is helpful to your ‘cause’ or to mothers-to-be. Scaremongering because of anecdotal bad experience is nasty. Mothers considering how and where to labour are under enough pressure and stress as it is without anyone indicating that there are ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ decisions.

@Swiftie1878 I'm calling out something which was absolutely unacceptable. Luckily it doesn't happen now the pandemic has gone.

Not sure about VE's but when i had a c-section after saying no and they did it anyway i was told that if it's urgent they don't need consent. Although when they took my gas and air away from me i started screaming at them to get the spinal in now so maybe that counted as consent.

I heamorraged at home after my miscarriage and the pain was worse than 2 of my labours. Dh phoned the gynae ward as instructed the previous day and they said call an ambulance. So a and e checked i wasn't anaemic, gave me prescription strength co codamol (which didn't touch the sides) and sent me home. I was admitted to the gynae ward 2 days later with a pulse rate of over 200 because I'd lost too much blood. So when the midwife recommended a homebirth when i got pregnant again I jumped at the chance.

I think it would be very rare for a VE to be so urgent that it must be done then and there. The only time I would find that acceptable is if the cord prolapsed and the VE was actually an intervention to push the baby up to take the pressure off the cord. Of course, a c-section is the only real option then.

I really didn’t - that’s not how proving a point works.