Would you send your DC to a primary school whose pupil numbers are rapidly dropping and are having budget problems?

[LucasBuck]

I’m in Wales so have to put down my choices for DC’s reception place in the next few weeks.

DC currently goes to the nursery of a primary school only a few minutes walk from our house. We are very rural and all the other village primary schools are about a 25-30 min drive away (by the time you account for school traffic and parking -so it didn’t seem worth exploring other schools at that time since she only goes for a couple of hours a day in the mornings at the moment).

BUT since DD started at this school I have become aware that pupil numbers have dropped so much over recent years that the school is really struggling financially- at the moment they only have half the pupils on role they have space for. Think 150 down to 75 kind of numbers. To the point they have had to make a mixed class for key stage 1 (reception/Year 1/Year2). All the schools in the area are dropping numbers due to the falling local birth rate, but seemingly not to quite this extent.

I also recently noticed when reading the local school inspection reports that DC’s school has more than double the number of additional needs pupils than others in the area -about 25% here vs about 10% at the other village schools. But they only have a handful of TA’s in the whole school (1 per class plus a couple of 1:1’s), so I’m not sure how well they can manage these higher SEN numbers?

I’ve heard a few of the parents complaining- that their kids aren’t getting enough teacher/TA attention, that they aren’t being pushed enough academically, that the parents can’t easily get in contact with the staff, that there are very few school clubs or extra activities etc.

I hadn’t been aware of these issues as the nursery is pretty separate to the rest of the school and DC seems fairly happy there - no particular friends but gets on well enough with the other nursery kids and the school as a whole seems to have a quite nurturing ethos and relaxed feel, which I do appreciate.

However I work from part- time from home, and because of the falling numbers, DC could very likely get into any of the “local” schools - none were over-subscribed in the last couple of years and all have similar “good” inspection reports.

So sorry about the long post, but what would you do?

YABU - Stay at the school that you/she are used to and is close to home. If the pastoral care at the school seems fine then that’s the most important thing for primary.

YANBU - More staff attention and extra curriculars are important. An hours school run (for DC, 2 hours for me) is nothing compared to better potential opportunities, even at primary level.

School nearest to you almost always

Thanks. I always just assumed DC would go to our closest school. But hearing the parental complaints and seeing the big fall in pupil number figures in black and white has shocked me a bit.

I’ve been to some of the other school open days and they seem very good - but I’m not sure how much you can really tell just from a couple of hours visit. I was equally as impressed by DC’s current school at the open day 🤣

My decision would be based on how I rated the chances of the school actually closing while my DC was still there.

If you think they are high (so they will have to move) I would look at another school. If you think it can survive, I'd send them there.

That pretty much describes most of the schools near us. Our primary isn’t great but I’d still choose it. I’d be more worried if there are any potential impacts on secondary choices.

The same has happened our area in England because of the low birth rates.
I would still choose it, I would much rather have a classroom with less children. It would mean more calmer and more interaction/ help from the teacher.

My decision is always based on the right school for my child not what is necessarily nearest.

If pupil numbers are low everywhere, would you be able to move schools later if your DC starts at the local school and it doesn't work out well? I wouldn't be going out of area and signing up for a 25-30 minute drive every day (so 1hr round trip for you twice a day) unless it was really, really necessary. Small schools can be great for personal attention, if they can balance the numbers in each class so they're not paying for too many teachers (guessing 3 classes of c.25 pupils with a roll of 75).

Pupil numbers are falling off everywhere - declining birthrate so that part wouldn't bother me - mine moved primary cos of various reasons and had the best outcomes at the tiny (15 pupil entry) school with a high SEN percentage. Was the right fit for them at the time - meant a well behaved, people pleasing but very anxious and autistic DD2 couldn't slip below the radar like she was doing at a larger school who had a shit attitude to SEN.

I think you'll find that all the local schools are in a similar situation. Red flag for me would be the R/Y1/Y2 class as 3 year groups in one class is not great. However, you also said one class for KS1, which is just years one and two and that would be OK. I am in London working as a supply teacher and most schools do not have class TAs beyond year 1 so it sounds like the level of support is good. The number of children with EHCPs could be because the school has a very good SENDCO who is proactive on the assessment of learning needs rather than there being more needs in the school. If I were you, I would stay local for now. Perhaps look again for KS2.

Thank you all for the help ❤️. Its interesting to know so many schools are suffering falling pupils numbers and budgetary problems 😢

To clarify, I got it wrong with the Key Stage 1 thing (I went to school in England so that’s the terminology that comes to mind first). I forgot that in Wales ages 3-7 are called Foundation Stage and that’s why they don’t seem to think there’s a problem putting reception in with year 1 and year 2 in a mixed class -as my understanding is that in Wales it’s supposed to be more flexible learning, with each school setting its own curriculum within rough guidelines. I suppose that might be why a few parents don’t seem to find the school academically rigorous enough.

I’m less worried about the academics, more worried about potential staff turnover or staff losses if pupils numbers keep decreasing and therefore funding keeps decreasing. But it sounds like that might be a problem in more schools than I think.

Certainly I don’t think the school itself is in danger of closing for a few years yet- there are one or two other village schools with only 30-40 pupils because of decreasing numbers and I think they are more likely to be in the firing line first. But certainly the pupils here might eventually end up in 2 bigger mixed classes if numbers keep dropping (rather than the current 3 classes of between 22-28 pupils) and they have to let staff go 🥲

Thank you for the reassurance about the high numbers of SEN pupils - thinking about it more, I suspect the reason for it is that the school is known for being quite caring (the inspection report specifically mentions how nurturing it is). I was just surprised how high the percentage was when considering the relatively small numbers of pupils and staff.

So thanks again all. I think I was especially in two minds about DC staying put because there is another “local” school which was always oversubscribed until the last couple of years - but now because of the rapid falling birth rate there have been 1 or 2 spaces and in theory DC could now get in. It’s very popular as it has had lots of building investment/more money and because the class sizes are always limited to 20 just because of the size of the classrooms.

But it would still mean an hours journey a day for DC, and I’m not sure if things like a nicer/newer classroom environment and guaranteed small class sizes are worth that or not. It seems lovely, but you can only tell so much from an open day. Whereas DC’s current school feels “safe” to me (I’m on the spectrum myself which I why I take particular notice of things like SEN numbers) - I mostly know what to expect at her current school and because it’s so close I can be there in a few minutes if there’s ever a problem.