Girl drama or bullying?

[ElatedMintHare]

looking for advice. Very long story but in a nutshell I met a fellow mum at a playgroup when our girls were 1. We hit it off and became friends. Over the years our families have holidayed together celebrated special occasions together and our girls became best friends until the age of 8/9. At this point they drifted and both had different friends. The friends daughter was always the more dominant confident one in the friendship and my daughter I guess grew tired of being the underdog. They have gone through school together and have dipped in and out of friendship. My friend and I have tried to maintain a friendship throughout and agreed not to fall out.
fast forward to the girls now being 15 and they just can’t get along. My daughter feels she has been forced out of a new school that they both started this year as she can’t bear being in lessons with her. (It wasn’t planned that they would both attend this school.)
This girl has spread nasty lies about her, belittled her in front of their peers befriended my daughter’s only friend and then excluded my daughter from the group. Mocked my daughter in front of peers.
Tried controlling who she can and can’t speak to. Displayed intimidating behaviour towards my daughter she can’t stand it any more. Is this bullying or normal teenage behaviour? I hadn’t spoken with my friend until this weekend to ask that her daughter doesn’t contact mine she just can’t cope with it anymore and has broke down over it she is extremely intimidated by this girl. I’ve tried to be as diplomatic as possible. My friend wants to stay friends she is upset that I haven’t given her the opportunity to sit the girls down and talk with them I don’t want this they aren’t ment to friends and how can I be friends with someone who’s daugther has made my daughters life hell for years. Thoughts? Any advice on how to move forward would be good.

Having had issues that aren't the same but fairly similar I couldn't continue to be good friends with anyone whose child made my child's life difficult.
Does she realise what her daughter has done? I think not if she thinks its as easy as getting them together.

i hope your daughter is doing ok x

Have you spoken to school?
To see about getting an impartial person to speak to them together (or apart separately first)?

Yes that does sound like bullying - have you spoken to your daughter's form tutor or Head of Year? That would be my first action.

I would just let the friendship with the other mum fade away - be too busy to meet up etc. If she pushes, tell her that her daughter has been so nasty that you really can't see a way forward for their friendship and yours. Tell her you've spoken to the school about the bullying and you probably won't hear from her again!

Girls can be so mean to each other.
this happens time and time again; my own daughter had a spectacular falling out with the girls she considered her friends all through primary school , when she was in year 8. However, the people who came to her aid are still her friends, even though they’ve don’t live or work close to each other, now. It seems to happen a lot: several friends of mine with daughters are having similar problems with their daughters. I think that’s why encouraging ‘besties’ at primary school is never good; you need to have a wide circle of friends that you can dip in and out of!

This is bullying. 100%. No pint in a sit down at 15.

At 15 your daughter has the right to do it her way, you are trying to manipulate your daughter so you dont have to stand up to the parent of a bully is the way i see this

I went through a very similar situation with a friend and her daughter: girls were best friends until they were about 11 and the other girl then met a new BFF who bullied my DD and the friend didn’t actually bully my DD herself but didn’t do anything to stop it.

My DD and my friend’s DD have drifted apart but I am still friends but in our case this was because my friend tackled it head on and read her DD the riot act. Her DD wrote both my DD and me a letter apologising. Although she didn’t drop the bullying friend she did change her behaviour towards my DD.

I was upset and the friendship cooled for a bit but ultimately I knew the friend had acted when she learned about the bullying.

Did you tell your friend what was going on before you said you were going to cut contact?

It is bullying and your DD absolutely shouldn’t have to tolerate it. But the mum friend may feel a bit blindsided if its the first she is hearing about it. She may feel that if she had known earlier she could have tackled it.

But the bottom line is your DD should absolutely not be forced to spend time with this child until she has significantly modified her behaviour.

I think, as a pp did, that you need to back away from the friendship with the other mum. Her daughter has caused yours a great deal of suffering and, unless you are prepared to tell her how much, there is nothing to be gained by keeping her in your lives. If you want to tell her all that her daughter has put yours through then I’d meet in a neutral place and be very matter of fact with a clear timeline of what has happened and when. I’d tell her that there is no resolution now possible for their friendship but that you just wanted her to be aware in case this happens again with another ‘friend’. Then walk away.

I agree with this. I don't think you can continue to be friends with her without addressing what's happening head on. So it's either do that or walk away from the friendship.

I would also echo what PP have said here and ask if you have worked with the school on this?

You say this girl is bullying your daughter at school then you need to approach the school let the school deal with the bullying. And as the mother is an old friend of yours,

It sounds to me as if your friendship with the mother is clouding the issue here. Bullying in school should always first be addressed via school, by contacting your DD's class teacher/year tutor/whoever the appropriate person is. In your shoes I would also have told my friend that I was contacting the school about it at a very early stage so that she had the opportunity to address it with her DD, rather than telling her you are cutting ties after she's 'made your daughter's life hell for years'. Why not address it head on long before now?

I do not agree with those who say dump the mother as a friend! Yes her daughter has behaved awfully but that is not the mother’s responsibility! At 15 teenagers can and do make their own (often stupid) choices; if the mother is open to discussing it with her daughter in a calm way, then let her. It doesn't have to be getting the girls together, which sounds traumatic for your child! but ending an adult friendship because of teenage relationships, seems very silly to me.
Too many parents seem to wade in and intervene in childrens social lives! and while bullying clearly needs a robust response, also children do need to learn to navigate relationships with a gentle steer from parents not micro managing them

Why didn't you speak to your friend the first time, second, third time your DD was coming home upset? How has it even got to this point when both mums are supposed to be friends? This is utterly bizarre

My friends son and my son rub each other up the wrong way sometimes, sometimes it has escalated to physical fights.... both of us know exactly what goes on and which ever child is in the wrong gets told...... I do not understand how you and your friend have let it escalate to this point?

Both parents are in the wrong for not getting involved sooner considering your friends

But if the parents had "waded" in sooner then the OP's daughter wouldn't of been bullied for years?

Exactly. The OP's friendship with the other girls mother has actually made her reluctant to engage with the situation, and allowed her daughter to go on being needlessly miserable for years. When DS started being mocked by his friendship group I addressed it immediately with the parents (who were my friends too) and it stopped almost immediately, and everyone remained in good terms. There's absolutely no point in putting off a difficult conversation for far too long, and then belatedly exploding and cutting off contact.

I really don't understand why the OP hasn't intervened sooner... I assume she wanted to keep the friendship but I can't imagine putting an adults feelings iver my own child's.

Yes - My children have had occasional issues over the years with my friends children ( all go to same school ) and me and my friends get it sorted.

It's awful the girl has been bullied but her own mum has contributed to this by not speaking to her adult friend. I honestly can't she wouldn't speak to her fiend when she says her daughters been bullied for years? Appalling

OP, you say you only spoke to your friend this weekend about it. Did you tell her absolutely everything that had been going on?

She wants to sit the girls down together, this to me sounds like she is downplaying her daughter's role and rather than reading her the riot act, she thinks they just need to talk it out to settle their differences, like mediation.

What you have described is absolutely bullying, and not girl drama. Your daughter should not be pushed into a sit down chat with someone who is making her life miserable. And I would also say, if your friend is downplaying her daughter's behaviour, and you maintain your usual friendship, your daughter could see this as you condoning her response and not fully having her back.

How could you let this go on so long?

There are plenty of people I don’t like but I’d never spread rumours about them and isolate them.

Agreeing kids disagreements don’t get in the way of friendships is one (completely reasonable) thing.

Ignoring your child being bullied to maintain the facade of a friendship is ridiculous.

If I were the other mother I’d be shocked that the first time you’re mentioning the issues - when your daughter is in such clear distress.

Also - why haven’t you involved the school? The other girl is very clearly a bully. You need to deal with this properly. Unfortunately after 10+ years of this behaviour it’ll be hard to deal with.

No, this is not normal teenage behaviour - it is bullying 100%

My eldest daughter had similar with a girl she went through primary and secondary school with. I was friends with their mum in the beginning, but this soon fell by the wayside when her child showed their true colours, over and over again. Just reading your post I kept thinking to myself "yes, X did that to my DD".

I spoke to school regarding the situation, and they were, thankfully, very helpful. In the latter years of secondary school they barely saw each other, and on the rare occasion they did, my DD just completely blanked her.

I hope your DD is okay. x

It really sounds like it has gone too far to stay friends with this Mum at least in the shorter term. It may not be her "fault" (if she just didn't realise) but still, I'm not sure I could sit and drink coffee with someone so closely related to my DD's suffering.

I'd maybe just let the mum know that it has gone way beyond sitting the girls down and it's best if they don't see each other for now. I'd also go in really heavy with the school - form teacher, head of year, head etc. Whatever it takes (if you haven't already). Your DD also needs to be separated from her at school by moving forms etc. Maybe you can just be honest with the mum that you're just having to totally support your DD for now and don't have much headspace for the friendship but you hope that will change.

ETA and everything you've said is definitely bullying, 100%, NOT just girls drama.

@ElatedMintHareHave you spoken to your friend before now about what your daughter says is happening. If the mother thinks they just haven’t been able to get along, I would tell her first what your daughter says and get her take on it. I don’t think sitting the girls down to talk is fair on your daughter, but if I was told my DD was bullying an old friend I would want to know what was alleged and do whatever it takes to put a stop to it.

If the mother hasn’t been told exactly what’s been going on and given a chance to speak to her daughter about it, it feels a little unfair to cut contact when she herself has done nothing wrong.

Its bullying. Teenage girls can be absolutely vile at times. I do agree though, with trying some sort of mediation, so both girls can give their views about what's been going on

Thank you all for your replies it’s been both interesting and beneficial to read the different perspectives. For clarity the school were made aware of the situation from the start and I have had meetings with them to discuss a way forward as has my friend and they are working hard to put things in place.
my friend and I have had many discussions about this over the years and we agreed in junior school that we would let the school handle any issues_ easier said than done sometimes!
when the girls drifted a few years ago me and my friend maintained a relationship however it was naturally strained and our meet ups became less frequent.
it’s my dd that wants to cut contact I would never dictate who she should and should not be friends with I have agreed with her that it’s for the best.
i haven’t told my friend that I am cutting contact with her I just don’t think I can sit and drink coffee with her like I used to. Most important my dd seems much happier and settled since I sent the message asking for her not to be contacted. Thank you to those who asked after her.
This was my first post and apart from a couple of off comments you have all been lovely!

That’s really good your daughter’s happier now. About moving forward from this, I hope she can learn to ignore and rise above any ongoing nastiness from the other girl, hopefully by making other friends who value her. If the bullying carries on I would tell the mother exactly what your daughter says hers has done so she can see how bad it is. She may not actually know if you or the school haven’t spelled it out

I have been on the other side of this, all be it in a less distressing form with younger children.

It's better to cut the ties here and just move on with different friends. It's a shame when this happens - but eventually you'll end up falling out over it, especially if you hear a different version of whats happened from your girls. Each of you will need to defend your own kid and by default, you'll end up accusing the others child of being either untruthful or dramatic.

Also not saying this is happening with you - but in the end my friends DD was grassing up my child just for attention, because her mum would tell me every little tattle and I felt obliged to punish my DD for it. I also felt like because of my friendship with mum, I couldn't fire back with her childs part in it, so this narrative built that it was always my DD starting shit - because I felt too shy/guilty to actually list her childs short comings/part in it back to her.

Distance is better in these cases and the school can deal with the stuff happening in their gates.