Private school underperformed I think my friend should get a refund. AIBU?

[Rambler96]

Friends daughter did her A levels at a posh girls school in Shrewsbury and failed to get the grades she needed for her university place. Now all the results are published, it looks like the school has massively underperformed for some reason. I think she should get a refund on some of the fees.

With only 36 students it would be impossible to compare year to year as the cohort is just not big enough. A handful of girls not doing well will bring down the whole percentages. Plus the general ability of the year could be lower than last year. Yes, the top students often are filtered off at 6th form, either with scholarships or to free state school or just because they don’t want to be in such a small year group.

And if some did get their grades it is hard to argue that the teaching as a whole was inadequate. And very hard to do subject by subject as there must only be a handful of kids in each class.

There is no argument for a refund as grades are never part of the contract.

To be fair A levels can be very teacher driven and if teachers leave it can have a real impact. The two key teachers in two of dds subjects left by Christmas year 12. The department in one subject were very young and had never taught a level before they lost the excellent head of dept and another senior teacher retired. Dd dropped a grade in that subject - I can’t see it was a coincidence. Gutting but what can you do? We’d already committed to the school and course when they left.

That’s not unusual- many private schools have unqualified teachers because they aren’t held to the same rules as state schools. You’ll often see in a job ad that a teaching qualification isn’t necessary or can be worked towards in the role.
Background, accent etc are often much more important or some schools… only they’ll call it ‘experience’ obvs.

That's a tiny sixth form. My DS's sixth form is 275 per year!! It would be difficult to spur each other on and difficult to teach as well.

Exactly.
It is also nothing to do with OP yet they sanctimoniously write " I’m going to suggest my friend puts a complaint in to the board of governors as it’s important going forward that these issues are ironed out".

WTF is it any of OPs business??

By year 12 and 13 half the work is independent study. At least that's how in works I. My kids state college and all the other state schools in the area. If the child didn't get the grades needed then that's the child's fault. I'm my kids college huge amounts to students get the grades for uni. My son is on course to get 3 A*s and an A. This is largely down to his independent study

Indeed, that's a tiny sixth form. My DS went to a large comprehensive and I remember us seeing video footage of an A level exam in a private school. My DS said "Oh that must be German or something, there is hardly anyone taking it", only to be flabbergasted it was Maths! 😁

If she went to a posh school i bet shell still get better opportunities than someone from state with her results

Perhaps. And hear me out here, perhaps the daughter just didn’t really work for her grades??
perhaps she did minimum homework and little revision. It’s has been known.
Revision guides now are really thorough, yo can get workbooks and guides and crib notes, and online videos, and past papers.
DC school use a mix of printed guides and are signed up to all sorts of websites for subjects where there are videos, quizzes, and god knows what else.
There’s more than enough stuff for. Motivated kid to practically teach themselves. Certainly enough to revise.

Your friend’s daughter underperformed you mean ?

Twistyizzy are you one of the teachers????

Always presumed smaller would mean better teaching and more individual attention maybe that’s not how it works and they need more competition

What? No.

But like I said, wtf has it got to do with you? You seem overly invested in your "friend's" child's performance. It's weird.

That’s a genuinely tiny sixth firm.

How many left after GCSE? 16+ is a ‘normal’ break point in the area, as no state schools in the town or immediate surroundings have 6th forms. The local college is very large (it incorporates both everyone taking A-levels and everyone taking vocational courses). It has a high rating from Ofsted and, given it has unusually low grade requirements for accessing A level study, good results.

Given that GDST parents are, in general, not at the very wealthiest end of the private school-using spectrum, I can imagine that moving at 16 would be an attractive prospect.

The only experience I have with private school is through a family member whose children have all been to private schools. The two girls left their private school to go to state grammar sixth form, one did very well and one struggled - a mix of poor a level choices and attitude played into the poor results. The other child chose to remain at private school sixth form. Things are not going well. And it seems this is due to aptitude and attitude. The child is having tutors for each of their a level subjects and just isn't putting in the effort. For example, they believe they only need to do three hours independent study for each subject each week and they consider that the hour they spend with their tutors each week is part of that! Their GCSE results were not great, and probably wouldn't have gained them a place in most state sixth forms.

36 students is really too small for any meaningful statistical analysis to be done on the A level results, though - especially as each subject is so tiny.

No wonder they didn't want to publish the details. That must be the worst set of results for them for years.

I know at our local excellent 6th form ( I'm involved there) that the students who struggle the most with the independent learning are the ones who've come from private schools. They also struggle with the level of competition after years of hand holding and lack of competition and diversity among the student body.
One dad had to had to have it explained multiple times that his DS - captain of cricket 1st at his 500 pupil private school - wasn't good enough to play for the the 1st or 2nd team at the 6th form. Being told his DS could play in a inclusive, lower level 'fun' team did not go down well at all!

https://www.shrewsbury.ac.uk/news/college-celebrates-fantastic-level-3-course-results

Local college (only state 16+ provider in the town).

For many of the very wide range of A levels offered, the GCSE requirements are 5 GCSEs at 4 and above, including English & Maths, so it’s not selective in any way.

https://www.shrewsbury.ac.uk/our-courses/school-leavers/a-levels

If I was a parent of a Y11 girl in or local to the town and currently at SHS, I’d be giving the idea of whether to move to the 6th form college very serious thought.

Crikey, I had no idea. I thought all teachers would have to be qualified. Are there differences in how problems with teachers are dealt with in private and state then? I always thought there'd be standards and procedures that were the same across the board for teachers.

There's also Shrewsbury School, which is now fully coed, which I imagine some parents may also switch to at that point if they get the feeling the high school is on a downward trend.

State academies can (and do) employ unqualified teachers. Over 80% of state secondary schools are academies.

Independent schools don't have to employ qualified teachers but most do.

Independent school teschers also usually have a higher level of qualification at their subject specialism eg MA/MSc/PhD, not just a BA/BSc as in state schools

Due to huge retention and recruitment crisis in state schools many teachers are teaching subjects which they don't have degrees in.

I think that would depend on budget - those with the funds might access Shrewsbury School, especially if eg sport or music were in the equation, while those where the fees were always a stretch might choose state 6th form instead.

This is just bollocks. You think parents who are paying school fees don't check and demand qualified teachers?

FYI state academies don't have to employ qualified teachers either. Over 80% of state secondary schools are academies. So the chances of getting an unqualified teacher are higher in a state academy than in am independent school.

50% of independent schools are inspected by Ofsted so what do you mean that "they aren't held to the same standards"??

I’m surprised they can run a 6th form with 36 pupils. It’s just not viable. My dd has just moved from a private girls school to another private school for 6th form. No option as the school has no 6th form because it’s always been a small school, her year was a small year group. She wanted co-ed now she’s older. At 11 she wanted all girls. We did look carefully. One local indie has a policy at 6th form of asking youngsters to leave if they do badly in the mocks so their results will always be high.

My son has just done his a levels and the results were below his predictions and below his mocks, the percentages for those were high. He did work hard but the grade boundaries for the mocks were as of last year and this year they were much higher. He was disappointed but he still got the grades he needed for his first choice uni. Unis were accepting students who dropped a grade this year, I’m thinking recognising the changes in marking. He wasn’t the only youngster in that group in that position though overall the results were but the 6th form was about 3 times the size of yours.

Those results from this school overall seem to have dropped considerably so I would be concerned and would expect the school to look at possible whys. However I don’t think your friend will get a refund. Issues should have been raised as you went along. It was a very small cohort, did loads leave after gcse, it’s a natural break point and many youngsters want to move on, my dd certainly did. If so were they the most able girls? She needs to support her dd in moving forward with the results she got.