Trigger warning - avoiding sexual attack questions - how you feel safe walking alone when you hear a local man is hiding naked in woodlands?

[IMakeDealsWithTheDevil]

I have a dog and have to go out daily. We have a situation locally where a man has been seen naked in woodlands in several local areas recently. There was another similar news item a few months back.

On Facebook a lot of men are making jokes about it but I am actually very worried. Several murders have taken place within a 40mile radius of where we live that have been female lone dog walkers, two of the murderers we know had been being sexually deviant up to the murders, showing genitalia etc.

I find the story has landed very differently with the women on the village group with many of us worried but the men thinking it's "just a nudist" or making jokes.

It's really affecting how relaxed I am on my walks and where I am walking. I've been thinking today how I would get attention if I was jumped or what I should carry with me or how I should act to put them off. Is it still the best advice to talk to them about their mum if they try to rape you? Biting? Poking eyes? What do you carry with you?

I really hope I am not coming across as crazy but I knew one of the women who was murdered personally and I am finding this very triggering. I think there should be some police led safety advice in the area.

But it does if it's online or any device, not when face to face.
Madness.

I agree with this poster. It wouldn't worry me at all. I'd actually assume it was some sort of social media frenzy and probably untrue TBH - same as UFOs... if real, surely someone would have taken a picture and reported to police and the person would be sectioned or whatever else?

Yes it is illegal. Otherwise flashers wouldn’t have police records and they do.

It's not illegal to be naked in public, which is why there are many nudist walks etc.

Indecent exposure is illegal. This requires the intention that someone sees you and is distressed as a result. This is what flashers fall under.

Nudists out for a walk don't come under that law.

The Mayor: Callahan... I don't want any more trouble like you had last year in the Fillmore district. You understand? That's my policy.

Harry Callahan: Yeah, well, when an adult male is chasing a female with intent to commit rape, I shoot the bastard - that's my policy.

The Mayor: Intent? How'd you establish that?

Harry Callahan: When a naked man is chasing a woman through a dark alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross.
[leaves]

The Mayor: I think he's got a point.

We don’t know whether the man has committed a crime or not, because we don’t know whether his intention is to cause alarm and distress.
We know that he is causing it, of course, but not what his reasons are. I don’t know why some posters are so adamant a crime hasn’t been committed. It is just as possible he is hanging around in the woods deliberately to scare women as that he’s doing it for MH reasons.

is this info coming straight from Facebook or other social media or have [police put warning out
as long as you stay in well lit areas and have mobile open you I think it would be fine

How can anyone suggest someone seeing a nudist's genitals on a public footpath won't be as upsetting to a stranger or a child as seeing someone's genitals who doesn't call themselves a nudist?

It is a very sad state of the world that this is neccessary but practical advice if you are attacked (all caveated with if you can, i understand everyone’s response can be different):

soil or wee yourself (if you can)
don’t fight back or cry too much (sickos get off on it) but do scratch them significantly, pull hair, anything to get dna evidence
don’t should ‘help’ or ‘rape’ but instead ‘fire’ or ‘mum/dad’
tell them you have hiv/syphillis/any STI
carry ID on you and anything any which could help identify you as you (unique jewellery etc)
don’t have your hair in a ponytail/plait - anything that can be easily grabbed/used as a handle
wear tight clothes like sports leggings, no joggers, skirts etc - something that would be difficult/a struggle to pull down or off you or lift up for ‘access’
yes to eye poking (gouge if you can), tongue biting, anything which will be a short sharp pain someone would instinctively recoil from - don’t go for more general hitting as a ‘thud’ can be more easily absorbed

I keep repeating myself on the indecent exposure vs nudity point so perhaps these screenshots from the College of Policing and CPS will help.

The test for indecent exposure is not about whether upset was caused.

It's about whether the naked person intended to cause upset.

Naked walkers out on a hike aren't out to cause upset. Someone flashing someone on a bus is.

That's not the definition of flashing!

The person displaying their genitals has to have the deliberate intention of causing you distress for it to be flashing or a crime.

Thank you - very practical advice and welcomed.

Am surprised at the not screaming as I thought this was the go-to for alerting others but understand it would be pointless in a remote setting.

It might sound a bit odd but I have very vaguely considered getting a tattoo in case I need to be identified - more of a fleeting thought that if I didn't want to take my card or ID with me it would be an issue.

I wouldn't stop walking through the woods with my dog but would always have a stick "for my dog to play with" in my hand. Other than that, follow sensible rules - never wear headphones or hoods and always keep the dog lead in your other hand. Don't walk along on your phone, stay aware of your surroundings. If you DO feel threatened or have someone following you telephone a friend and speak loudly to them about the weirdo behind you and can they meet you at the end of the field/lane/road (make it somewhere close) in x minutes or to come and meet you.

Oh of course, they ask the perpetrator this. I see. That all fits with what we know about sex crimes.

> don’t should ‘help’ or ‘rape’ but instead ‘fire’ or ‘mum/dad’

This is weird advice! I live next to a woodland and people shout mum/dad all the time and I ignore it. If someone shouted 'help' or screamed I would go and investigate.

There's no need to get sarky. I'm explaining what the law is because if you want to stop this man in the woods then you're going to need to know the law.

If you want the current law changed, I'm the wrong person to talk to - that would be your MP.

I think there is a reason to get "sarky" if it means women and children are being endangered due to some archaic law that takes the man's view over the unsuspecting person they show their penis to.

Realistically, I don't think there are many sure fire methods of safety outside of years of training (which is still not guaranteed). Only ways to make yourself a bit safer.

I used to do Brazilian jujitsu for years which is 90% rolling around on the floor. I found that men are so much stronger they can usually overpower you in spite of the art being designed to use leverage rather than strength. However, it'd be almost impossible for most men to rape me without first incapacitating me as they'd have their work cut out just trying to hold me down. You learn all sorts of useful things like how to bridge up with your hips to unbalance somebody sitting on you, and then grab the arm they put down to stabilise themselves so it's easier to roll them. Also 'shrimping', which is pushing your hips out to the side to get out from underneath. Many BJJ fighters are actually equally comfortable fighting on their back.

I also did Kali for almost a decade, which is a Filipino dirty boxing/weapons art. Unlike Japanese arts that use specific weapons (e.g. a katana) Kali has universal movements that are intended to work with pretty much any improvised weapon, so even a pen could be pretty handy if you can stick it in their eye or throat.

But all this takes years of training and most people won't invest the time unless they really enjoy it like I did. I've always got a legally sized penknife in my coat pocket which I can easily open in the pocket with one hand if I sense I'm in danger. If I was walking in the woods and knew there could be an attacker I'd probs just bring a stanley knife but also carry my mini tape measure and spirit level so it doesn't look suspicious. I actually work in construction so I doubt I'd be mistaken for a hoodlum in the unlikely instance I was stopped and searched.

I work nights and used to work late shifts that ended in the middle of the night. So I've been walking around alone at night for 20 years. I don't drive.
I've got flashed on a number of occasions. I just don't react at all. Don't run, don't scream. Just keep walking eyes ahead like nothing has happened.
None of the flashers ever touched me or tried to come close to me. These have all been in built up areas in the city or outskirts of the city but residential.
The scariest thing that's ever happened to me was actually when I was hiking on the moors at dusk. A land-rover just pulled over when I was on a road in the literal middle of nowhere.. and the guy started shouting sexually aggressive stuff at me. I was very shaken by that because there was no where to run, no houses, not a single person in sight for miles just moorland. Luckily he drive away when I just kept walking without reacting. But I did not walk that way again for a year. Tbf I hike a lot and that's the only thing like that which has ever happened to me whilst hiking.
I still walk around on my own. I'm not stopping something I enjoy because of the behaviour of ridiculous men. I'm not quitting my job because of the behaviour of ridiculous men.
Sadly statistically you are much more at risk of violence from men you know or meet out when drinking etc.. than you are from random attackers. Obviously it can happen but it's a rare tragic occurrence.
I always think to myself that I'm actually much much more likely to get accidentally run down by a drunk driver when walking home than I am to be raped. So wy bloody spend my time worrying about that? Obviously be as safe as you can be. I wear hi vis stuff. I walk via well lit streets. I've got my mobile phone.
Not much else you can do.

Talk about their mums?! Is that the advice. From the documentaries I’ve watched, men who do sex crimes tend to really hate their mums.

Sadly you’re wrong and I’ve been arguing this for years due to similar locally. You’re not near Sherwood Forest are you? Men roam the forest naked and the police and the RSpB say it’s fine as they have no intention to cause distress. The fact I may be distressed is irrelevant apparently.

who knows what their intentions are? Maybe they get a real kick out of it (I suspect they do).

I do agree the law needs changing and you’d have thought in this post Wayne Couzins era we would have more protection. But no. Women don’t count.

As a lone woman it’s not nice to come across a naked man while walking in a deserted forest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-58120317

https://visitsherwood.co.uk/plan-your-visit/naturism-on-rspb-reserves/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/SherwoodForestNaturistWalks/?locale=en_GB

No, I'm not local to there either.

I am actually disgusted that anyone would argue that it's their right to show strangers their genitals in a public place, as long as they don't "intend distress".

Especially when we are all aware laws have been passed to stop this happening online. Where you are actually not face to face with the man doing it, which obviously puts you in more danger!

I think I might write to Jess Phillips and see if she can do anything about it, as it certainly feels like the law hasn't kept up with the times.

I can't believe the naivety of some posters. It's mind boggling.

From everything you have said, sounds like you live very near to me. And no, you’re not the ‘weird’ one. One of the recent victims was a friend of one of my close friends. I most certainly have changed my dog walking habits. There’s an area of fairly remote ish land between sea and farmland that I used to walk regularly, alone with my dog, seeing only the occasional bird watcher. Until I got followed. I don’t go there alone now and it isn’t far from where the recent victim was sexually assaulted and murdered. And her murderer had been caught committing a sexual offence the day before but hadn’t been arrested. If I am alone in the woods walking my dog I don’t like to come across fully clothed men acting a bit odd tbh, I’m not about to think a naked one is just there for a pleasant afternoon perambulation. And for all those quoting the ‘law’ - assuming this is the same woods and man - then the police clearly do think it is an issue as they have launched and investigation to identify the ‘suspect’ (their words).