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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder when Americans lose their roots

296 replies

categorychaos · 08/10/2025 14:09

Curious to know (especially from US Mumsnetters) but when do Americans stop referring to themselves as having heritage from where their forefathers came from?

Whenever I read a bio on someone famous reference is often made to their roots - so for example German, French, Scots, Irish, French, etc..

Along with a fair number of people I have heritage stretching back to different cultures/places but after a few generations I would not refer to myself as Irish or French and it wouldn't tend to crop up anywhere outside of genealogy

Is there a reason they do it so much in the USA or am I mistaken in that assumption?

OP posts:
Saveusename · 09/10/2025 00:14

Delphinium20 · 08/10/2025 23:53

My great-grandparents emigrated from Norway and Denmark to the US. We know what towns most of them came from, have photos from the 1880s of some of the people who came over, and a few who stayed, and some of us have gone back to visit over the years. Even though this is now at least 120 years since these wave of late 19th century post-Civil War immigrants came to the Midwest and Pacific Coast, it's still a whole thing to keep the idea of their roots alive. We have food, stores, celebrations, festivals, associations, churches, etc. that still celebrate this heritage. We fly the Norwegian flag on Syttende Mai. The Norwegian crown prince just visited one of our sister cities in the US this last week. My grandma's wedding and baptism were conducted in Danish. I have clippings from Danish-language and Norwegian-language newspapers in the US that family members kept. Scandinavian language camps in my city are always overbooked.

For fun, we did 23andme and it accurately noted that 80% of my heritage came from the exact places my ancestors told us they came from. The rest came from 'general Northern European'. I was hoping for some interesting, unknown background might pop up, but nobody was lying, I'm ethnically Scandinavian.

My parents were very liberal in the 1970s/80s and told us we could marry anyone of any background/race. But I fell in love with a man whose entire family came from Norway, so our kids joke that they are more Norwegian than the Norwegian Royal Family.

Surely that's just telling you that your ancestors came from Scandinavia and Northern Europe, which you already knew?

I suppose it sounds nice in a way but my great, great, great grandparents came to England from Ireland in the 1880s and it would just be insane to suggest I am in any way Irish.

Morningsleepin · 09/10/2025 00:20

CarolinaInTheMorning · 08/10/2025 19:05

My many times great-grandfather (whose surname I have) emigrated from the Hebrides in 1735. Most of his descendants stayed in the same general area of North Carolina and married the descendants of other Scottish immigrants. I consider myself Scottish-American.

That's wonderful. I had a Canadian friend who knew all about her ancestors who'd arrived before and during the Irish potato famine. She knew more about her family and than who's born and bred Irish

Willyoujustbequiet · 09/10/2025 00:29

CarolinaInTheMorning · 08/10/2025 19:05

My many times great-grandfather (whose surname I have) emigrated from the Hebrides in 1735. Most of his descendants stayed in the same general area of North Carolina and married the descendants of other Scottish immigrants. I consider myself Scottish-American.

Thats just embarrassing.

I'll count myself as a Viking then

CarolinaInTheMorning · 09/10/2025 00:34

@WilfredsPies I didn't really have to disclose my Scottish ancestry other than telling people my surname. I found nearly every person I came into contact with very welcoming.

The only thing that I find frustrating about this discussion is the notion that some posters have that because identity with national origin is not part of their own culture, it's silly and ridiculous for Americans to value that identity.

Willyoujustbequiet · 09/10/2025 00:36

CarolinaInTheMorning · 09/10/2025 00:34

@WilfredsPies I didn't really have to disclose my Scottish ancestry other than telling people my surname. I found nearly every person I came into contact with very welcoming.

The only thing that I find frustrating about this discussion is the notion that some posters have that because identity with national origin is not part of their own culture, it's silly and ridiculous for Americans to value that identity.

I'm Scottish.

You're American.

KawasakiBabe · 09/10/2025 00:41

KawasakiBabe · 08/10/2025 23:57

I lived in the US for the best part of 10yrs. As soon as they realised I wasn’t American I got their full story. Dear God, they all bang in about it, lol

I always say I’m British, when one woman asked if I was English, I said Yes, she then launched into a big, “I should hate you, I’m Scottish” thing because her great great grandparents were born in Glasgow. I let her talk for a while then told her my dad is Scottish, born in Dundee, that’s why I say I’m British. When she asked I didn’t feel the need to tell her my whole history, Scottish father and Irish great grandparents, I just agreed I am English as I was born here. She then told me off for lying to her, saying I’m English. I mean, I am, but that’s by the by.

I don’t hate that Americans feel they connect with their heritage, I think it nice actually, I just don’t want to be told in granular detail about it every time I meet someone new. I love my Scottish family and I love Scotland too, but no one cares about that other than me.

Beekman · 09/10/2025 00:46

I’m British and live in the US, in fact I am a US citizen now. Over 70% of my DNA is Irish but as a British person, I could not give a fuck, I’m just English. It’s just not something that is part of British culture.

It’s different over here. Pretty much everyone has come from somewhere and the history of immigration is largely a matter of pride and identity. When someone says they are Irish, like Biden did, they’re not claiming to be Irish but Irish American. The second part is implicit. Don’t forget how young the USA is, and that mass immigration to make the country work was still happening less than 100 years ago. Of course now everything is more homogeneous, every generation is more “mixed” but it’s all still very much within living memory.

An American of any origin is “American” when abroad, it’s only at home the distinction is made.

I don’t know why some British people are so bothered about it, to the point where they are hoity-toity. I daresay I was too before I moved here but I understand it more now.

CarolinaInTheMorning · 09/10/2025 00:51

When someone says they are Irish, like Biden did, they’re not claiming to be Irish but Irish American. The second part is implicit.

Excellent point. It's also true that the distinctions are made primarily within the US with other Americans. My sister lived in China for 5 years and her identity group became much broader: essentially all English speaking expats.

ConnectBell · 09/10/2025 00:51

CarolinaInTheMorning · 09/10/2025 00:34

@WilfredsPies I didn't really have to disclose my Scottish ancestry other than telling people my surname. I found nearly every person I came into contact with very welcoming.

The only thing that I find frustrating about this discussion is the notion that some posters have that because identity with national origin is not part of their own culture, it's silly and ridiculous for Americans to value that identity.

I think it's cool, pass it on, it's knowledge.

America is a young country, records exist of most all imigrants, I'm British but I'd love to know where my ancestors came from.

If you know when and where they came from why would you not be interested in that place.

I love the connections.
There seems to be a great deal of pride with the Americans that arrived from Irland and Scotland, nothing wrong with that, fiercly strong people.

FortuneFaded · 09/10/2025 00:56

Our American friends talk about Cornwall like they have just stepped off the fishing boat at Newlyn, eaten an ansum pasty and popped to Michigan for their entire life. Most recent Cornish ancestors for them was 1750. Identity, and what is means to people. is really interesting.

SouthernNights59 · 09/10/2025 00:57

TwoUnderTwitTwoo · 08/10/2025 18:43

I don’t think that this is just an American thing. Everyone I know who comes from a diaspora background continues to identify with that culture in one way or another. A sense of rootedness is important to all people, and that includes non-indigenous North Americans.

When families immigrated to America they often all came together en masse (several generations, parents, children, cousins, etc) and settled around families of similar origin, so culture etc was passed down pretty effectively and can be seen in place names, music, traditions and language in America today.

I live in NZ and my most of my great-grandparents moved here from somewhere else. I consider myself a NZer and while I am aware of where my GGPs came from I don't feel any connection with the countries. I am interested in history and have done some research, but that's as far as it goes.

WilfredsPies · 09/10/2025 01:08

CarolinaInTheMorning · 09/10/2025 00:34

@WilfredsPies I didn't really have to disclose my Scottish ancestry other than telling people my surname. I found nearly every person I came into contact with very welcoming.

The only thing that I find frustrating about this discussion is the notion that some posters have that because identity with national origin is not part of their own culture, it's silly and ridiculous for Americans to value that identity.

Hmm, I think it’s not part of our culture to value it because it’s not our identity, it’s our ancestor’s identities. For me, any Irishness was my great grandfather’s identity. Not my mum’s and definitely not mine; so there’s nothing for me to value. So lots of us do find it quite odd that Americans who have been in America long enough to have their own cultural identity, still insist on identifying as belonging to a country that their grandparents’ grandparents had never even been to. At what point do you become ‘just’ American?

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 09/10/2025 01:10

Brits not understanding why Americans care so much about their roots is a bit like Americans not understanding why Brits care so much about social class.

mathanxiety · 09/10/2025 01:12

A lot of people of German/ Austrian heritage decided to keep quiet about that when America joined the Allies in WWI, and subsequent generations stopped speaking the language, sometimes anglicized their names, etc. For them, the process of assimilation was speeded up by general anti German feeling, but it was also a result of being a much more gepgraphically dispersed ethnic group than ethnic groups who settled for the most part in cities (Irish, Jews, Italians). They found themselves farming alongside Norwegians, Swedes, Russians, Czechs, English, Scots, French, and others, and clubbed together in Lutheran and various other protestant churches, with English of varying fluency emerging as the common language.

Also, many 'Germans' left their native lands well before German unification under Bismarck, and considered themselves Prussian, Hessian, Bavarian, Silesian, etc, and not 'German' per se. It was only under the pressure of war that this identity was foisted on them.

The Irish, Jews, and Italians were forced by economic and other circumstances (discrimination, sectarian bigotry) to stick to their own areas of the cities they ended up in and developed a strong sense of their own identity, so much so that even in the cities there were Irish parishes, Italian parishes, Polish/ Bohemian parishes - all Catholic - and marrying outside of your community was considered a betrayal of your heritage almost as serious as becoming a heretic. Most Italians came from the south of Italy and from Sicily. Jews came from all over Europe but in particular the Russian Pale of Settlement, pre-independence Poland, and the rest of the Hapsburg lands. Their experiences in their regions of origin differed, but they had enough in common and faced enough general discrimination lumped together as 'Jews' (and a good few derogatory names) to cause them to stick together.

For Catholics, parishes were the centre of social lives, with numerous activities such as am dram, musicals, choirs, musical ensembles, sock hops, roller skating in the school gyms, mothers' groups, play groups, men's groups (Vincent dePaul, Knights of Columbus), charitable drives within the community (food banks, groups distributing meals to the elderly, families with newborns, and newly arrived immigrants). The establishment of Catholic parish schools and high schools, and then Catholic universities, hospitals, schools of nursing and teacher training schools meant that they gave themselves a leg up. The Irish famously took over many branches of city services - police, fore, unions, etc, and also city governments and Democratic organisations. Italians kept their own turf too, both communities making it possible for newly arrived immigrants to find their feet, and ensuring that those who were longer established had no reason to pack up and leave.

The identities that are strongest now tend to be those of ethnic groups who stayed in cities, partly because of ties to old parishes, family relationships, and shared memories of schools, sports, and childhood fun in the old ethnic neighborhoods (though there are now many descendants of the old neighbourhood populations in the suburbs), and partly because it's easier to hold a big communal celebration of identity in a city than in a tiny town in the middle of Nebraska.

ConnectBell · 09/10/2025 01:13

SouthernNights59 · 09/10/2025 00:57

I live in NZ and my most of my great-grandparents moved here from somewhere else. I consider myself a NZer and while I am aware of where my GGPs came from I don't feel any connection with the countries. I am interested in history and have done some research, but that's as far as it goes.

Edited

I'm English and have relatives in New Zealand, never been there, but it think can also work the other way, having a connection to a place where the family branched off and lived elsewhere.

Sprinklesandsprinkles · 09/10/2025 01:17

Sexentric · 08/10/2025 19:58

It's weird how differently this is viewed. I have one (black) Jamaican grandparent, 3 white grandparents from England and Wales. I'd feel like a fraud identifying as Jamaican. Tbh I feel judged even identifying as mixed race because I don't look especially black - more sort of middle Eastern. And I even used to live in Jamaica as a kid (no accent now though)

I get this! I have a Chinese great grandparent and an obviously Chinese surname but I wouldn't dream of identifying at Chinese. You certainly have more claims having lived in Jamaica though!

FunnyOrca · 09/10/2025 01:20

It sounds like @CarolinaInTheMorning is making a distinction that is being lost here. She is not calling herself Scottish, but explaining what “Scottish-American” means.

Syntactically, the term is outrageous to Scottish people and conjures up those bemused tourists who insist they are “just as Scottish as you” but don’t know anything about the modern country and most of the information they do have is just stereotypes or quirks of their own family.

Culturally, it seems to mean something quite different to this poster, a label that describes the heritage of a group of Americans. I still don’t really understand why they need this label, but it’s clearly different from actually believing they are Scottish.

mathanxiety · 09/10/2025 01:21

Willyoujustbequiet · 09/10/2025 00:29

Thats just embarrassing.

I'll count myself as a Viking then

How does ot affect you if someone considers herself Scottish-American?

Does it steal some of your identity?

I can't understand why you find this so annoying. I'm guessing a general anti-American feeling, basically a sense of being superior to Americans, but why?

mathanxiety · 09/10/2025 01:23

Pleasegetmeacoffeesotired · 08/10/2025 19:06

Come on now. That's a bit ridiculous.

Why?

ConnectBell · 09/10/2025 01:23

I think there is some snobbery in America around where your ancestors originally came from.

Daygloboo · 09/10/2025 01:29

categorychaos · 08/10/2025 14:09

Curious to know (especially from US Mumsnetters) but when do Americans stop referring to themselves as having heritage from where their forefathers came from?

Whenever I read a bio on someone famous reference is often made to their roots - so for example German, French, Scots, Irish, French, etc..

Along with a fair number of people I have heritage stretching back to different cultures/places but after a few generations I would not refer to myself as Irish or French and it wouldn't tend to crop up anywhere outside of genealogy

Is there a reason they do it so much in the USA or am I mistaken in that assumption?

My father was Scottish and i grew up in England.. my mother is European. I can trace both sides back to their countries for many many generations..I have zero English dna..I dont consider.myself English even though I have lived in england my whole life.

mathanxiety · 09/10/2025 01:30

Ooogle · 08/10/2025 19:10

You consider yourself Scottish? Because of an ancestor from 300 years ago?

I couldn’t even tell you where my ancestors from 300 years ago were from. I know my great great grandad was Irish but my parents and grandparents are a mix of English and Welsh and I’ve only ever lived in wales so consider myself Welsh (technically if I was sporty I could play for either Wales or England , sadly I am not).

Read the post again.

She said she considered herself Scottish-American. That doesn't mean 'Scottish'.

I don't know if you feel you're superior to Americans who claim a hyphenated American identity, or what inspired your post.

I'm Irish and know my own family history going back many hundreds of years - back to the Normans in 1170ish on one line, and hundreds of years in the case of many others.

This doesn't make me superior to you, or inferior. It just makes us different. There's nothing wrong with that.

mathanxiety · 09/10/2025 01:35

ConnectBell · 09/10/2025 01:23

I think there is some snobbery in America around where your ancestors originally came from.

It's not snobbery. In many cases the identities that are the most celebrated belong to communities that were the least welcomed when theiy first arrived. The Irish in particular were despised for their poverty, their Catholicism, their lack of what was considered solid protestant virtues, and their willingness to do any work they could find.

Hence the University of Notre Dame's nickname, 'The Fightin' Irish'.

Not snobbery, but defiance.

Willyoujustbequiet · 09/10/2025 01:37

mathanxiety · 09/10/2025 01:21

How does ot affect you if someone considers herself Scottish-American?

Does it steal some of your identity?

I can't understand why you find this so annoying. I'm guessing a general anti-American feeling, basically a sense of being superior to Americans, but why?

Its got nothing to do with being superior or anti-American.

Its passing yourself off as something you aren't and feels like an appropriation of culture. It irritates many Scots as it often reduces our culture to some sort of Braveheart stereotype romanticised nonsense that has nothing to do with reality. Its not a costume to be put on when it suits. I'm quite sure many Irish feel the same.

If your parents, grandparents etc.. were Scottish then yes thats understandable. But if you're talking great great great whatever then no...you're just American.

mathanxiety · 09/10/2025 01:41

FortuneFaded · 09/10/2025 00:56

Our American friends talk about Cornwall like they have just stepped off the fishing boat at Newlyn, eaten an ansum pasty and popped to Michigan for their entire life. Most recent Cornish ancestors for them was 1750. Identity, and what is means to people. is really interesting.

The Cornish generally emigrated as whole communities and worked as miners wherever there was a seam of tin or any other material they were familiar with, sometimes enticed to America by individual mine owners. As miners, they developed or maintained a very strong communal spirit over many generations, very like the community spirit of the old (now decimated) mining communities of the North, with a huge pride in their skill and courage. Mining communities are a breed apart no matter where you find them.