to think Seat Frog has ruined First Class Rail travel

[Goldfsh]

I've paid extra for First Class train tickets for the last few years for three reasons: my mobility has been very decreased and I'm unable to stand for long (but unable to qualify for a Disabled Railcard); my immune system is also shot so I appreciate that it's more spacious; and I can work on my laptop. Basically I pay because it's quieter and cleaner.

Over the last month or so, every time I've travelled the First Class carriages have been full with families, especially young babies and children and OMG ALWAYS listening to ipads and phones without headphones - and I suspect this is because of apps like Seat Frog that buy out the First Class fares and offer them cheap.

First Class travel is pointless IMO if it's as noisy and full of noisy families. Is there any point to it if this is the case? Has anyone else noticed this lately?

This is going to make you seethe OP

If you have booked a seat on the train then they have to find you a seat. And on a full train that will be in first class, so they may not be paying anything other than second class.

I’m surprised by the number of people saying ‘just book the quiet carriage’ - not all trains have a quiet carriage! I regularly travel on CrossCountry trains and those never have a quiet carriage. Even if there is a quiet carriage people don’t pay attention to it.

That's quite a sense of entitlement you have there, OP. Those families have just as much right to be there as you do. I've travelled First Class twice with my baby recently; way more space in the seats to hold him in his sling for a sleep, more space in the luggage racks for his pram/car seat if needed, much cleaner and safer.
One trip was to take him on my own to meet my terminally ill grandmother- a 4 hour train journey on the most overcrowded service in the UK (Crosscountry). If I hadn't had the option of FC, that trip wouldn't have been possible. The other trip was to see his grandparents, who live a 7 hour drive away. But I'm sure you'd still assess yourself as somehow more deserving. Seatfrog makes use of otherwise-empty FC seats and makes it financially more accessible for people who want to use it for plenty of reasons. Public transport is just that- PUBLIC. Not private.

My are teens now but I always used to travel FC with them as toddlers... it meant lounges wit clean toilets, unlimited snacks, tea and coffee served to me at the table, and usually a hand getting them on and off the train. Plus a calmer experience away from from stag parties and, ironically, noisy families. (Mine were very quiet toddlers, wouldn't have done it if they were the screaming type). Yes, the baby sometimes cried but only for a minute or so while I got into positio to feed her.

A friend uses seat frog and from what i understand it’s like bidding to upgrade and can be quite hit and miss as to whether you win the bid. So I can’t imagine any family have managed to win 4 bids. Hate to break it to you OP but some families have plenty of money and can afford first class the normal way. Heck some people you might think are a bit unsuitable have plenty of money and can afford first class.

You stated that the the influx of families and children occurred in the past few months. Would this be due to school holidays? If so, this problem may die down in term time.

These days, people are noticeably louder in public, so I don't think you'd get a totally peaceful journey anywhere.

This is strange. I travel with a baby and a young child and pay for first class tickets because we need the extra room.

I’d never heard of seatfrog before but I’ll definitely check it out next time I book train tickets for my family

The influx of full First Class carriages and a noisier/children demographic is very recent, and coincides with a lot of people using Seat Frog. I can't believe it's a coincidence

Never heard of Seat Frog before yet I always book first class when travelling with my toddler and preschooler. I prefer the space and the guarantee of table. I pay full price and have every right to be there.

Also, seeing as you’re such a fan of Seat Frog, sounds like you’re using them to book tickets so it’s very likely that you’ve actually paid less than them to be there.

I have also not heard of seat frog, so thanks for putting me on to it.

I always try to travel first now with kids - under 5s don’t get seats and in standard class this means… no seats. Greater likelihood of getting on in first, more space generally, you won’t have people standing in the corridors, food and drink brought to you etc…

It makes for a far more pleasant experience, and often isn’t all that much more expensive.

ipads with the sound on are a scourge wherever you go now - just ask them to turn it off.

You work for the Seat Frog 🐸 marketing department don’t you OP?

Thank you for reminding me OP. I’ve bid on mine and 11yo DS’s return journey from Edinburgh. An upgrade through LNER costs £175 at the moment.

Reading this thread (and learning so many parents are booking first class tickets) - the train companies have created this situation by not letting you choose seats on some lines, no seat reservations for children, and allowing the trains to get so full there’s often barely any standing room.

It is actually quite funny to hear so many people who are doing exactly the same thing as me re: travelling in first - making the whole experience far more pleasant for an extra £100 is very worth it over a few hours.

Just a reminder to other parents who say they pay "full price" for their FC tickets... Family rail cards. Especially if you are travelling regularly. It can work out cheaper to get a toddler a ticket with a family railcard and therefore a seat booking fir them,than a single adult ticket without one.

Not true. I have tried sitting in First Class when the train is full & been told I have to pay to upgrade or move to stand in 2nd class.

Buy some headphones and listen to something relaxing. You’ll hardly be able to hear them.

Aren’t first class train carriages ‘quiet’ ones with signs up? I always assume they are. I think if people are allowing children to listen without headphones surely you can ask them to lower the volume or ask any staff if they can ask them. If the carriage you’re in isn’t a ‘quiet space’ there might be another on the train that is a designated quiet space you could move to.
YANBU to think that people should be using headphones and be conscious they are in a shared space with others. I personally don’t think children should be on the screen full stop on trains / restaurants etc but that’s another debate!!

TBF almost everyone is eligible for a railcard of some sort, which is often worthwhile to buy even for one journey, other than an adult aged 30-60 travelling alone.

I agree with you OP.

The companies that cover my area don't have "quiet" coaches, but this was never an issue because bar the odd self important businessperson being Very Important on a loud call it was fairly quiet both in volume and numbers of passengers.

Like you, I primarily book 1st due to disability (though am fortunate to be entitled to a railcard) - extra legroom, more comfortable seats making a longer journier more accessible, refreshments to the seat etc

I've definitely noticed a change in the demographics and use of 1st class recently, and it is making travelling a less pleasant experience which is a shame.

It's definitely part of a wider decline in polite behaviour over the past decade so by no means solely the fault of SF

Seat frog has been around longer than the last few months. I’d have never taken my kids to first class when little. They managed train journeys without tech as they didn’t have a phone or ipad until secondary. It’s also not just kids with no headphones, on my commuter train it’s usually men listening to clips with volume up. A lady asked one man to turn the volume down last week, and he did oblige, with a face on him. Why can’t people be respectful on trains? Zero consideration for anyone else.

Oooh… I’d never heard of seat frog, thanks for the heads up!

I’ve used (or tried to use) Seat Frog a fair few times. It’s quite hard to win the seat and they are often quite expensive in the end.

We first used seatfrog 8 years ago, so it isn’t a new thing by any stretch of the imagination.
We used it with a young child, however you will be pleased to know he didn’t have an iPad at the time -haha

Families are allowed in, if there are seats they can be filled and only the quieter coach is for peace. Sadly not even there these days. I have sympathy for ipads out loud and music, adults do this too and it does my absolute head in and I'm convinced it shows society collapsing and eroding around us 😆

However your other reasoning isn't fair, first class to YOU means quieter but it isn't one of the official perks of first class.

Your attitude towards who can afford first class is annoying, automatically presuming families have got it cheaper so that's why they are sat there.
It's still public transport, a shit hole, with a variety of different people ranging from middle class - working class. You will get noise wherever you are, maybe less so in the quiet carriage but noise will still be there.
As for influx in noise, new gadgets are developing all the time, this is now an electronic age, so it's only going to continue and grow. Kids are now becoming increasingly more entertained with iPads/iPhones etc.
Gone are the old days, which you prefer.