Did I ruin my career by having children?

[prettydesertflower]

It just feels women get the short end of the stick. I always struggled to balance climbing the ladder with being a decent parent. I never was sure I got it right.

Then someone sends me this more or less confirming we can’t have it all and it makes me think what was the point of all the struggle if we are going to end up poorer in the long term anyway.

Am I being unreasonable to think no matter how hard you try to climb the career ladder, you will loose out financially if you have kids?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgq4x697q5o

@DoubtfulCat, all situations are individual so it's impossible to comment on people's choices when we don't know them, but I still think it does come up to choices (good or bad).

We moved house and town because the local high school was not good enough to my liking. I moved jobs 6 times in that period to adapt to various issues, mainly due to constant relocations. I still often travelled for up to 90 minutes. It's not just me who had to adapt but my kids. My eldest attended 4 different nurseries before starting school. Many would have thought this wasn't right, but I made my choices to do so and it paid off because we always approached changes with care, love and managed any problems together.

I do believe that a number of mums are calling impossibilities what I call choices. It's hard to know what the right choices are. It's easier for me to validate mine because it all came out very well for us all. I wasn't always so confident. Still choices though.

I'd be interested to know the age linked effect too. I had my son slightly older than my friends (only 34), but I'd done a lot of big career moves in my 20s, and decided I didn't like that career, retained and am in a cushier number now. My pay is static based on a few years back, but I've got a really comfortable niche and can focus on enjoying myself and my hobbies.

No one can “have it all”.
Retirees now, we know which we value most highly. Family.

Children bring a lot of meaning to your life. Family is a form of wealth. A job is a job. Money is money. Being financially stable and solvent is another form of wealth. But that kind of wealth can be devalued, if not cut off entirely. It's a very volatile form of wealth. Your job can also be devalued and you can be replaced. The company can fall on hard times and decide they can't afford you anymore. Your children won't decide to get rid of you as their mum (unless you're a really terrible mum).
I think you are looking at kids through rose-coloured glasses - in a world where anything can happen, you can have some pretty awful kids too - someone has to have them and it's not always as a result of bad parenting. A friend of mine's life is almost destroyed by her alcoholic son. Having kids carries its risks too.

@YorkshireGoldDrinker

Children also grow up in the blink of an eye and you don't want to be that woman who put so much passion and energy into her career that she practically ignored and forgot about her children along the way, and now they're all grown up and disinterested in you. If you exist purely just to make money, and you're happy with that, then fine. Other people want to live and make the best of this short life granted to us.

You realise that some women have no choice other than to make money, right?

Why are we talking about “career women” as if they are women who deliberately choose to ignore their children? Most women who work hard at a career have to in order to support their children. It really irritates me that it’s positioned as some “lifestyle choice”. The need to make money that you sneer at is pretty important for me as a lone parent. It’s what pays for me daughter to have a decent standard of life.

As for “having it all” (and I hate this phrase), when have you ever heard a man being told he cant “have it all”? Such a stupid, sexist trope. Some of us have to “have it all” in order to feed and clothe our children. And the OP is right, its much harder for us than for men but some if us do it and we don’t do it out of some desire to cosplay as a man. We do it out of necessity.

I think the real question is why so many women go into low paying careers? Or is it that careers women are better suited to are valued less by society and therefore paid less?

in every couple I can think of off the top of my head (apart from my own), the man had chosen a well-paid career and the woman hasn’t. Therefore when it’s a question of who goes part time to help with childcare, it obviously has to be the woman. so the question is why? All the women are just as highly educated as the men.

The women I know are: teachers, social workers, GPs, opticians, HR professionals, working in charities or the arts. Even where they have roles that could be highly paid (eg solicitors) work for lower-paying industries. The men I know are; accountants, city lawyers, bankers, business owners, salesmen in lucrative industries, surgeons.

Having a dc has not impacted on my career at all, in fact I completed a doctorate when she was in nursery and have had a great career. But I only have one dc. Whilst it wasn’t by choice (a second didn’t happen) i am extremely happy with how things have worked out. I have the career I wanted (very flexible, well paid and family friendly) and been the mother I wanted to be. Dh career has also not been impacted. He travelled quite a bit when dc was in primary school.

I think when professions (medicine, teaching) move from being male- to female-dominated, the pay and status go down.

Exactly - IT used to be "womens work" and was therefore paid poorly. Then someone realised they could make a lot of money out of it and it magically transformed into "manly work" and became well paid.

There is a joke about how men pick better paid work like engineering, medicine, accountancy, while women tend to pick poorly paid jobs like being a female engineer, a female doctor or a female accountant

I feel as if DH and I both ‘have it all’ (in the traditional sense of the phrase). But we’ve had very specific luck and been able to make very specific choices to allow that to happen.

• Had twins. Yes, very stressful, but it meant only one maternity leave.
• DH and I took a year off in parental leave between us. 6 month each.
• My mum provided 2 days childcare a day when we went back to work. Other 3 days in nursery.
• We both work in jobs that are flexible and understanding, with bosses that also have family commitments.
• Covid fell when they were 2yrs old. Work was very relaxed, nursery closed and we saved an awful lot of money, and kids didn’t suffer educationally.
• Post Covid provided new WFH hybrid routines which saved us money and childcare.
• We could afford a nanny and cleaner which took a lot of domestic pressure off.
• DH is truly a 50/50 father. Does all the school runs, the medical appointments, the night wakes, a lot of housework etc.
• Neither of the twins have SEN of other complex needs.

All of this is incredibly lucky. We’re both directors at work but both still around for every dinner and bedtime and almost every school run, class assembly, school event etc.

I look around me and I don’t see this in other women at all. Which is fine, many do not want to work full time. I don’t know how many would if they could.

I changed career to teaching. I do an 80% timetable which is about 45 hours a week but then I do get 13 weeks holiday with my kids which is amazing!

I think it does when you don’t have a supportive partner. I now have an adult child and a teenager. I never gave up work but took a step back - I had little childcare options (nursery cost us a fortune!) for holidays or when they were sick so I had to do it. My husband never covered any of it ever - he now says I was lazy, comments on how little I earn and says he was my meal ticket (as I said I continued to work part time and do everything in the house). I have been lucky enough in the last couple of years to obtain a better job and am increasing my pay but I’ll never earn what he does -I don’t have enough working years in front of me. I feel demoralised by it all and feel what was the point - yes being a woman with kids massively impacts your career.

The key is to find the balance that works for you.

Having children and wanting to be a present parent will probably impact your income. But at the end of the day, money can't buy happiness. No doubt some women might earn more if they had no kids. For myself, no job could give me what my kids do.

That said, it is irritating to see mediocre men storm up the career ladder ahead of you, whether they have kids or not.

This is such an interesting topic and I'm glad to see there are as many making it work in their own way and that lots of us are happy with that. I echo what has been said by a previous poster. It should be about equality of opportunity IF you want it and it works for your family. I really struggled after I had my 2 older boys (now 15 and 11) as my partner was in the police and when I was pt it seemed like I did even more of the work due to his shift patterns and him always prioritising his work. When I went back full time in a different role and he had to take on more of the childcare, drop off and pick up our relationship fell apart as he just didn't want to handle that. Without close family support, and me working full time, I relied on wrap-around care a lot. I then had another baby with my new partner during covid. I worked full time since returning from mat leave until last year when I'd full on had enough of all the running to and fro. In addition to cooking meals, running the older ones to clubs etc. So I did 3 days last year and had 2 days to be more present for the kids. It was fabulous but our finances suffered. I'm back 4 days now and feel that it is a stretch even with 2 older ones...however we were so stretched financially that I know now we can't sustain me working any less. So until the older ones are in uni or work my career will stay as it is. And I'm happy with that!

I used to live to work. Now I work to live. It’s seems unfair that after decades of work my male counterparts feel the same but are better off than me.

I’m guessing that data includes women like me who wanted to take a full year maternity leave and wanted to reduce their hours returning to work. I dropped down to 4 days and have lost £500/ month to do so. I have no interest in my career at this point in life - I want to do my job well, finish on time and switch off mentally for the next 5-10 years, so fully expect my career will suffer.

I think if your career is important to you, you can make it work. Extreme example: My SIL works in a nursery, one of the parents she used to have was a very successful lawyer but her baby was doing 8am-6pm at nursery from 3 months and was then picked up by her grandparents - I can’t imagine having a child affected her career at all.

Yes it ruined mine.

I had to drop part time, still can only work 30 hours due to pick ups and drop offs. I also stayed in a low paying role as it’s flexible and convenient. I’m mid 30s now and am paid the same as new people coming in.

Means my colleagues have been promoted or moved while I’ve stagnated. Now I have imposter syndrome and am scared to do anything about it, also worried about taking on responsibility I can’t manage- for example if school calls or one of them are sick and I have to leave.

Somone said to me… woman can have it all, but NOT at the same time. I believe this. X

Unless there's something you're not telling us, then the only male that matters to your outcome is the father of your children, who you presumably chose. Did you have a conversation about careers before you decided to get pregnant? How did you feel about it then, versus now? Do you regret having your children?

If you have been out of the workplace, or working part time while caring for your children, then of course your career will have taken a hit. If your partner had done the same then his would have taken a hit.

Are you absolutely certain that your career is truly ruined?

Having children didn’t ruin your career. Take some time to think about other areas of your life that might be contributing to these feelings. Maybe you’ve made some errors along the way, but those mistakes are not your children.

I'm a firm believer that people should take time away from the internet and truly disconnect when bad thoughts and feelings start to take over. The internet can be terrible for anyone's peace of mind. But if that's not possible, it's better to find healthy distractions and avoid stressful articles like the one you posted.

Each woman experiences unique circumstances and faces the outcomes of her own personal choices.

I'm a SAHM, and I can afford it because I made smart decisions by pursuing a high-paying career with a generous salary and biannual bonuses, while also creating passive income streams. I make it a priority to be present for my children during their formative years. I also have a husband who is an excellent partner and a very high earner.

It’s too simplistic to say having children ruins women’s careers. It didn’t ruin mine but my DP gave up work to look after our children so have they ‘ruined’ his career? To an extent I suppose they have. It’s hard for two people to work full time and raise children. I know people who do it but they are veey well paid and pay for a lot of extra help. That’s not available to everyone and not everyone’s cup of tea regardless.

Where the inequality often comes in is the extent to which women are expected to be the ones to compromise. That is ingrained, even though some couples organise differently. Me and my DP are very much on the minority.

I think it depends on your set up. For me it’s had a dramatic toll on my career. I have been 3 days a week for 5 years, turned down promotions, then I’m still paying for nursery and wrap around on the days I do work.
Having said that my bosses are women with kids. They just have more support. Retired grandparents who will do everything from getting the children up and dressed, taking them to school, picking them up, giving them their tea and even putting them to bed if necessary.
If you have a house husband or retired, local, willing grandparents it doesn’t have to hold you back.

It’s great. Unless you need time off when your kids are sick, then it is a nightmare!