Ex took my kids & now they won’t speak to me

[Winni208]

I’m going through the most difficult time of my life. My ex ran off with our children while on bail for DV. They are teenagers. For a whole month, I didn’t know where they were, nor were they in school, I suffered immensely during that time. Eventually, after an ultimatum from social services and the police, he confirmed where they were staying and they went back to school. But, their attitude toward me has changed beyond belief. We separated 7 years ago, and they lived with just me, seeing him in the holidays because he lived far up north. Now they’ve become distant and cold. The older two are unresponsive (17 & 15), and with my youngest (13) I’m lucky if I get a single word in a week. I’ve made all the relevant applications, and proceedings are ongoing, but with them being teenagers I feel the odds are stacked against me. I am bereft and in so much pain, yet I carry on, go to work, and keep doing what needs to be done. It feels like he’s turned them against me, how, I don’t know?! But I’ve heard through friends kids that he’s been telling them I’m dangerous and other awful things, dc have also said they hate me but can't say why. So many people have stopped talking to me, but I'm grateful I have old friends and family that have stood by me. Has anyone been through something similar? How did you cope with the pain? How did things turn out in the end? Is there anything else I could do to help them? Any advice or support would mean so much right now.

Very similar situation to you with my eldest they use the kids to stick the knife in cos there is no other way to get at you. I was not impressed by how many people said leave her to it she’ll come back, she was told I only cared about her brother. I ignored them and text her quite simply I love you I care about you and I miss you and whenever you want or need me I’m here waiting. A few months later and a fight with Dad brought her home. I was the same as you didn’t want to tell them in detail thought what they’d witnessed was bad enough. They still have relationships with both of us now as adults but they also knew a lot more than I thought. Big hugs I know it’s heart breaking and I hope your kids realise what’s really going on x

You say he was very manipulative to you and I suspect he's doing the same with them now. It's hideous for you at the moment but I wonder just how much of what they're saying is of their own accord or very much being presented by him? You were unable to speak out and leave and it may well be the same for them. Even if they are genuinely saying this -This is temporary.
it is galling that people who have done nothing wrong have to play by the legal rules whereas abusive get to do what they want.
I would continue to contact them , tell them that you love them and will always be there for them and try to have faith things will be resolved sooner rather than later .

OP, it’s very difficult in such a situation to know how much to tell the DC, because your ex is still their father. If you tell them about the DV, they will be shocked, but they will also not want to know - children do actually want to think well of their parents. I think you just have to be endlessly patient: let them know you are there for them, and never give up, in spite of the silent treatment they are giving you. It’s very hard, especially if the other parent is an arch manipulator, as seems so often to be the case. You have my sympathy - it’s really not easy.

The Crime Analyst podcast has 2 episodes on this exact situation
episodes 268 & 269.
It’s called Coercive control: the pathology of the abuser. Some very insightful info from professionals trained in DV and coercive control.
sorry to hear you’re going through this!

I'm so sorry you're going through this - it sounds absolutely horrendous. You've had loads of great advice on this thread which I would echo, having been through/going through the same thing myself.

I haven't seen my two (now teenage) sons in any real way in 5 years since their Father alienated them as part of a campaign of ongoing abuse. Like you, I instigated court proceedings and fought for most of those 5 years but unfortunately am no further forward. I kept up the message that I love them and I'm here for them despite the fact that they refuse to see or speak to me. Writing letters and hand delivering them for a long time, sending texts and emails. Sadly all those ways are closed to me now but I have to trust that the message has got through and somewhere deep inside them they know that what they're saying is untrue and that memories of the wonderful childhood we shared together are buried deep inside.

I'm now at the stage where I have to accept the situation as it is and focus on making my life as purposeful as it can be. I'm not going to sugar coat it - it's bloody tough but it is doable if you have a good support network and you're kind to yourself. Try to make your ex accountable for this situation and not blame yourself for what you couldn't have foreseen. Take small steps towards getting yourself back together in a new way - you'll never be whole but you will be okay, I promise.

I take joy in the time I spend with other people's children now and have great relationships with my nephews, nieces and friends' kids which I may not have had time or mental space for prior to my marriage breaking down. They're not replacements but they do bring me joy and lift me out of myself when I'm feeling low. My friends and family are great as are the people I work with - they can't understand what I'm going through but they can hold my hand when I need it and distract me from the doom and gloom when it's all getting on top of me.

Despite all the crap, I try to count my blessings and on the days when my heart is breaking, I let myself grieve for what I've lost and more importantly, what my children have lost. Much love to you x

How did he run off with a 17 & 15 year old? They must have gone willingly, the question is why?

There is little you can do about your older two I'm afraid as the court will not force teens this age to see a parent they do not wish to see regardless of whether parental alienation is involved or not. It's a different story for your 13 year old though.

You may need a fact finding, the court might also appoint a psychologist and/or Cafcass to interview all involved. This will help determine the wishes of the children and how they came to them.

I'd be careful not to fight against their wishes once established as it may backfire.

My stepson's mum refused the change in residency from 50/50 every step of the way and the boys felt thwarted and totally unheard as a result.

I think it’s a mistake to hide this stuff from children
It was done to me and I completely have no relationship with my mother whatsoever
But then equally, I’ve got no relationship with my father either because of course it all comes out in the end
You can’t forgive Mum for lying By omission

@HRchatter thank you, your words 'You can’t forgive Mum for lying By omission' really struck me. I need to figure out how I can tell them, as I don't see them writing/text is the only option, but I'm so afraid it will be used against me. I'll keep thinking....

SS are involved and have seen the children weekly for assts and reports and other visits, these will soon change to one every 10 working days, they recognise dad is manipulative based on the evidence, but can't prove with certainty that he is like that with the children nor is it their job they say, and they also say they can't prove the DC's wishes are theirs vs influenced by dad.

@OneMoreCoconut Thank you. I’m listening to that podcast now, and I cannot believe how accurately it describes my situation, especially how the abuser starts laying the foundation very early in the children’s lives to turn them against you, should you ever leave.

The trouble is, if you don’t let them hear your version his version becomes their truth.
And you’re on the back forever and ever and ever.
Thats so difficult to unpack as an adult

@HRchatter thank you I completely agree, but I don't even know what words to use, or what things to tell them, what would you liked to have been told, and how? I'm feel so lost, and so desperate, but will do anything to help my children.

What a bloody patronising comment!

How about writing them a letter and then you can edit it as many times as you want

This is what a court appointed psychologist is for. There needs to be expert evidence to determine whether parental alienation is present or not.

Patronising how? Her claim that SS aren't too worried just doesn't fit with the visiting schedule. If they are moving to ten day visits after the assessment that's a child protection plan. That doesn't vary by area. No social worker visits child in need families every 10 days. It's not about how well resourced or diligent they are. It's not appropriate to visit families that often if you don't have a high level of concern about them. I think it's very pertinent what kind of plan the children are on as it indicates what level of involvement social Services will be having with the court proceedings.

Totally sympathise life isn't fair and children can be cruel and expartners can be nasty as well.

Any child who can treat their mum like that after the care she's given them isn't really worth stresskng over anyway.
Nobody has the right to upset anybodys mental health, not even offspring.

Tbf we only have rhe posters viewpoint not the daughter's I'm a single parent and my dc would never so that, we're too close even with ups and downs. They know I love them unconditionally and put them first as children

Do you think the Mothers who have posted here, sharing their incredibly painful experiences of their children being alienated from them thought "Parental alienation is definitely on my bingo card for this year, it's certainly going to happen to me." or (infinitely more likely) do you think they'd never really given it a moments thought, or if they had, thought exactly like you; "My DC would never do that"?

It's lovely that you have such a close relationship with your DC, but these women also had close relationships with theirs. It's been the actions of the DC's abusive, controlling and alienating fathers who have caused this situation. It's no reflection whatsoever on the strength or otherwise of the relationship between these poor, abused Mothers and their children.

I'm sure that OP loves her children unconditionally and did always put them first. I would assume that you don't have a manipulative, malignant narcissist for an ex-husband who is currently out on bail for domestic violence? I wouldn't be so complacent that it could never happen to you because you are such an awesome parent. It hasn't happened to you because the father of your kids isn't as awful as OP's ex-husband.

Tbf I probably thought the same before I lost my children.

Although I probably wouldn’t have said it on a thread full of grieving mothers.

I do hope that @tripleginandtonic never has the misfortune to suffer the way we are.

I was answering a specific poster.
As to OP, all the social worker involvement at the ages the children are at suggests there is more than she wants to post.

That's a really terrible thing to say. It makes it clear you know absolutely nothing about the subject and that your situation is extremely different to hers.

Doesn't make anything clear at all. At the end of the day we only have the info someone posts. But there will be a lot more to it. It is not usual behaviour for dc who have had a secure, happy and loving relationship with a parent to reject them totally, especially for a parent that has not been on their life much.

@tripleginandtonicit’s clear that you don’t understand the many facets of domestic abuse and in particular, coercive control. I suggest you educate yourself - women’s aid is a good place to start. https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/coercive-control/

There’s also some useful information on the CAFCASS website. They are court appointed social workers and have their own page on “alienating behaviours” where they say:
“It may be that the child had a previously good relationship with a parent but is now being manipulated or coerced into turning against that parent, which may amount to being emotionally abusive as defined in the Children Act 1989.”

I hope that’s helpful in understanding why a child who has had a previously good relationship with a parent might feel they have no choice but to attack and berate that parent, with whom they feel safe as they know they won’t be rejected. By contrast, the alienating parent is usually the unsafe parent who demands absolute loyalty or they risk rejection.

The reason I know so much about this is because my sons rejected me outright and I can promise you we were very close and loved each other very much. They have an older sister who chose not to live with their Father but still wanted to see him and her brothers. He rejected her outright because in his twisted mind, she chose me and that made her disloyal.

Please please educate yourself on this issue - if nothing else, because one day you may have a friend or family member who faces this and they need your support and not your judgement.