To think “supporting women” now just means clapping for bad choices if the person is likeable enough?

[TheSereneJadeSeal]

We don’t call each other out anymore. Just say “do what’s best for you” and pretend enabling is empowerment.

Can you give some examples perhaps?

Not if you read a lot of replies on AIBU?!!!

You are spending too much time on social media.
I manage not to either call out or clap for my friends.

Wut?

Yes, can you go into more detail op and perhaps interact on one of your many, many posts.

A woman staying in a clearly toxic or unsafe relationship and anyone who raises concerns is told they’re being unsupportive or “not letting her live her truth.”

Overcommitting financially or emotionally to something that’s visibly not sustainable but being encouraged with “you’ve got this” instead of honest feedback.

Making obviously self-destructive choices (in friendships, careers, parenting, etc.) and being applauded with “do what makes you happy” while everyone avoids the harder conversation.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t support each other, just that the meaning of “support” has shifted. Sometimes real empowerment isn’t clapping.

I'm not sure I've ever seen the phrase "live your truth" used on here unironically. I do agree with general idea of not unconditionally encouraging anyone in whatever they're choosing...sometimes a little judgement and tough love is needed yes, but i think MN is quite good, if not too good on occasion at that.

I second this - examples OP?

Nobody in a toxic relationship has ever ever had people day she is “living her truth”.

Ever.

It’s the whole “you’re perfect just as you are” thing. No, nobody is perfect and all of us could do with fixing this or that. It’s just an excuse to shift the burden of dealing with something onto the recipient/victim. People who encourage others in this misguided way are almost certainly seeing themselves in the other. It’s such a stupid and ultimately self-sabotaging way to live. Imagine going through life with the same problem, not fixing it, but having to justify or explain or argue your right to not fix it each and every time to each and every person it affects. Easier and better outcome to fix it!

I do not relate to any of these examples. I have never heard anyone say these things in real life and nor have I encountered them on Mumsnet or Reddit, my favourite online haunts.

People do rightly have a cautious attitude to encouraging women to leave unpleasant or abusive partners because a) they recognise that it can be hard for people to get out and that they might need to spend time getting their ducks in a row before leaving, and b) they understand the psychology by which an abused, mistreated woman might end up in denial, being hooked in by a cycle of abuse and might even be driven more into an abuser's power if her friends and family all try to push her too hard. Not the same at all as saying a woman in this position should 'live her truth'.

As for self-destructive choices in general... well I suppose again there is the problem that bossily telling someone that they are making bad choices doesn't necessarily change their mind and can in fact entrench their position. If you care about someone it is good to be honest with them to a point and try to puncture self-delusion but there is a certain amount of compassion and tact that is needed too. 'Calling people out' can be one of those empty things that gives the person doing the calling a sense of self-righteousness and a sort of 'I told you so' smugness in the bank but doesn't actually help the other person.

Then there's the fact that what looks like a self-destructive choice to one person can genuinely be the best choice for another. Situations aren't always clear-cut. There can be nuance. Maybe our culture today is a bit more pluralistic, with fewer narrow-minded strictures about what life should look like.

So all in all, maybe you have a point if you think we're a bit too wish-washy and tolerant of other people's choices now. That said, I feel like I hear plenty of women bitching about other women and tearing them down over their appearance, weight, life choices etc, so my own impression is that we could use more tolerance and curiosity about other people's lives, not even less!

I see what you mean and definitely there is still some of this. However the other side is true now too. Women have always been socialised to be and expected to be hyper agreeable.

The advent of social media has broken that down faster in this one single generation than ever before.

I honestly have no idea what you are going on about.

OP's example - A woman staying in a clearly toxic or unsafe relationship and anyone who raises concerns is told they’re being unsupportive or “not letting her live her truth.”

Actual most likely MN responses - LTB. Do you have anyone in real life who can support you through this? Call police/get help immediately. Get ducks in row. MN team will post links to helpful information and contacts.

OP's example - Overcommitting financially or emotionally to something that’s visibly not sustainable but being encouraged with “you’ve got this” instead of honest feedback.
Actual most likely MN responses - Have you taken financial advice. What is your plan B. Have you done your research. "That sounds unsustainable - are you sure?"

OP's example - Making obviously self-destructive choices (in friendships, careers, parenting, etc.) and being applauded with “do what makes you happy” while everyone avoids the harder conversation.

Actual most likely MN responses - "This isn't going to end well", "I did that OP and it ended in a shit show", "She sounds like a nightmare OP" Grey rock/go no contact/can you talk to someone in real life about this/no job is worth it.

What you've said is rubbish OP. I'm here to call you out.

There is only so many times you can say you need to leave him before you end up saying your life your choice! And congratulations! Your pregnant....by an abusive bastard....who you know is abusive....and a bastard

I ain't clapping though I am distancing myself like a fucking roadrunner

Ha! This is exactly how mumsnet is!

"I have 8 kids but 7 men and I need the 7th man to ship out so I can move the 8th man with his 6 kids and we are TTC but the kids dont want to share our 2 bedroom flat, should I marry him next week or give it a few'''

that must be so hard for you, sending hugs anyone who says it is not the best idea in the world is a big meanie and you should just block them

If anyone is unsure like the weather or buses wait a while and a few threads will pop up exactly like them soon

Eh? Have you spent any time on mumsnet?

I don't know anyone in real life who'd support any of this either. They might try and be tactful as a way to open the discussion if they felt the person was more likely to hear them that way, but that's about it.