To be worried about my indefinite leave to remain. Should I get British citizenship?

[Milliemoons]

I know it hasn’t happened yet and may not happen. But I’m worried about the security of my indefinite leave to remain. Anyone else out there? Or am I worried about nothing? I understand that legally they cannot really do much to jeopardise the status of people who have acquired legal settled status already but I’m worried more about pressure and complications should anything change.

I was born in the UK and have always lived here, except for 4 years as a child in my parents’ home country. I have the same citizenship as my parents because originally as a child you had to be on a parent’s passport. I think I therefore have easy-ish access to British citizenship but it’s not something I ever imagined applying for.

After Brexit, she was asked to fill in a form, she can become a British citizen just by doing that

I think there are some wires crossed somewhere, you can't just fill in a form to become a British citizen as a European national even if you have settled status.

Or if I'm in fact wrong, please tell me how as my husband could save a couple of grand.

And again, just because I sign a form doesn't mean I actually hold a duty to Britain.

Surely the fact I've lived here nearly my entire life bar six months, ive worked, I've contributed, I've volunteered, I've raised two British kids, surely that means more.

And if it doesn't, then why should I have any belief that you saying if I sign piece of paper it will be ok is true?

Again that’s totally a reasonable position - but the flip side of not wanting to be a British citizen is that you then don’t get the rights of a citizen which is an inviolable right to remain in the UK.

That - in itself - is not a racist position. And I agree with it.

in an ideal world everyone would be lovely and we’d all get along - but that’s not reality and borders and immigration controls are an important aspect of maintaining the security of countries. The EU works because its countries with the same fundamental political/cultural systems and with common defence goals. it is not inherently racist to have immigration controls. And it is not inherently racist to have a different level of rights for people who commit to citizenship and those who won’t. A commitment to citizenship is a committent to that society and thereby its security. By not wanting to commit to citizenship the OP is indicating that ultimately loyalty to another country is more important. Which is totally reasonable of her. But must have consequences or what is the point of citizenship.

of course in day to day life that means very little because the UK is not at war so it seems like ridiculous hyperbole. But that doesn’t make it unimportant. We are one of the first generations ever to which this does seem to mean very little.

Reform are awful racists for the way in which they are likely to in fact target their policies. And they’re not very bright and being led by people who are very cynically manipulating their followers for their own private gain.

So how do you propose that commitment and loyalty to Britain be determined?? Signing the form clearly DOES mean something if you don’t want to do it. Citizenship mostly matters in times of war.

How do you think Ukrainia is mustering its army?

I think it might be wise. I really hope Farage and his nasty lot don't get into power, but if they did, then rules might change fast. If you can afford it and can do it now, then do it.

For anyone with IDL, the passport office told me yesterday I can still get a British passport with certain documents, so it's worth looking at that route if you're worried. it's cheaper.

Theres also naturalisation which I currently know nothing about, but I'm meeting up with someone next week to discuss the possibility of.

Again. This is really stupid though. It's needless paperwork that costs everyone time and money that's only being implemented because some racist twats are shouting loudly. it will end up costing everyone.

No she would not be a British citizen if born here before 1983.
The laws got more relaxed.
Pre1983 you could only be a British citizen if your father were a British citizen- born here or abroad.

The law in 1983 changed that to either mother or father.

There have been more law changes since then.

Naturalisation is how you get your British citizenship.

My DH got his a couple of years ago.

It is really easy.

@Milliemoons Do it asap. The only reason to stay with ILR is when your origin country prohibits dual citizenship. If you don't have that issue, do it immediately.

You need to be careful of absence limits over the 5 years before application, as well as a requirement to be of good character - so no speeding or protests.

Read up on the process, do your IELTS test - harder than you think even you are basically native - and double check your application before submitting as mistakes can lead to delay or rejection.

Act now.

You are in the lucky position of being able to be a dual citizen. My DH is Japanese and they don't allow dual citizenship, so he would have to revoke his to get British. It's a horrible situation we find ourselves in despite him having IDLR for 20 years, and never taken a penny from the tax payer. If he takes British citizenship, then gives up his Japanese and then decides he wants to return to Japan at some point it's a nightmare. But if Japanese immigration find out and tell him to choose, and he chooses Japanese then we are worse off as he won't have his IDLR.

I think this is so horrible as I am now really worried about if we carry on as we are, and what happens if I can't work any longer to sponsor him? What happens when we retire? Are all the older people on IDLR who are past working age going to be thrown out?

I dont mind doing it, I can't afford to.

And asking me to constrict my finances so I can pay to sign for a privilege I both have always held and always worked for feels like a massive slap in the face.

My loyalty to this country is in doubt because politicians are wandering to racists. They seem more important than me. I can't even begin to explain how marginalised I've felt the last few weeks. Ive experienced racist abuse for the first time in my life. And far from feeling a part of this country, which I have never doubted, I am now starting to feel that many people view me as lesser, and this government does too.

Ok, thankyou.

I'm meeting up with someone next week to go through it, but you've somewhat put my mind at rest from a personal perspective!

@Toastandbutterand

I’ve read all of your posts on this and while I agree we shouldn’t be facing what seems likely under Reform, there really isn’t anything we can do right now. One of my friends with settled status says she won’t bother applying for citizenship because she believes Reform would strip it from anyone not born here anyway. She might be right.
The truth is, nobody would really stand up for us. At best, people will politely say: “You must understand, it’s a small island, therefore off you go.”
It is what it is. We can only hope for the best… or, with a bit of dark humour, not even be around by 2029.

Well whether "no protests" makes you not a person of good character is very debatable. Surely we want active citizens. There is nothing more British I hope than speaking out and being counted. If we have really got to this point I think I might just give up and go and live in Japan.

This is exactly how I feel too.

I think anything I do will ultimately be pointless.

Thankyou for hearing me, and I'm so sorry you and your friend feel the same way.

It feels so dystopian, and it feels so fast. And it's all based on where you were born, you can only escape if you're rich. But we're not allowed to say it because we'll be doubly condemned.

If you’re not a citizen then you’ve never had the rights to live here permanently. Your right has always been subject to a change of law. It is unfortunate you don’t appreciate that. But now you know.

There is a cost associated with processing and granting citizenship. That’s life and also entirely reasonable.

Citizenship is a privilege. It is entirely reasonable for a country to impose requirements and a cost for someone to obtain that privilege.

Nothing about the above is racist. It applies as much to Australians who are white as Australians who are aboriginals.

the way in which Reform want to implement it is racist. Confusing the matters is unhelpful. And plays into their hands entirely.

I thought for the majority of EU countries that don’t just allow dual citizenship, the rule was that if you were born a citizen of that country then you can assume another citizenship as a dual citizen, but if you’re a foreigner moving to that country you have to rescind your other citizenship (although happy to be corrected!)

I moved here when I was 6 months old. I was adopted.

One of my friends with settled status says she won’t bother applying for citizenship because she believes Reform would strip it from anyone not born here anyway. She might be right.

That is even MORE reason to get it done fast. The more naturalised British citizens there are, the less likely Reform would succeed at getting it through Parliament and through the legal appeals of the UK Supreme Court and the ECHR (which would take years to remove ourselves from).

It is important to note that several MPs were either not born here and/or are also naturalised British citizens. They are not without connections and they would hardly vote aye on a law that would strip them & their children of their British citizenship and deport them and their families.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/a58uul/are_there_any_naturalized_citizens_in_parliament/

I don’t want to become a British citizen to live under a far right government in this country. I have settled status, but lucky that I can leave the country if Farrage gets in. I’d wish those who can’t leave good luck 🤞

Why does 6 months give me less of a British right?

Unless it's based on where you were born, and that only.

In English, discrimination based on where you were born is called racism. Technically it's xenophobia. But generally it has always been called racism.

How would you propose that nationality be first determined if not by place of birth? Are you proposing that there not be nations?

I mean great if we can all get along - but do you genuinely think one great global society would
function effectively???

the entirety of human history suggests not. So if not the nation state with membership determined at first by birth then what other type of grouping do you propose?

assuming we stick with nation states for now cause I very much doubt you can suggest something else - then what other model for membership would you suggest instead of right by birth or by meeting criteria set by demoncratically elected parliament?

I think it is entirely reasonable that there were a bucket load of requirements placed on me to first live in the uk and then get citizenship, including paying for the cost of it. I also think if I committed a grave crime (eg murder, terrorist attack) it would be entirely reasonable for my citizenship to be stripped and for me to be deported.

You’re not alone in being worried about this. Two of my friends with ILTR (both born abroad) have recently converted theirs to citizenship / started the process for the same reasons as you cited. Their husbands and children are British (born here) so they’re not taking any chances.

One of them was going to stick with ILTR initially as her home country can be a bit funny about dual citizenship, and she didn’t want to lose her home country’s citizenship as it was an important part of her identity. But with Reform on the horizon it wasn’t worth the risk for her.

I’d get citizenship if I were you too. It’s just not worth the risk ❤️

It’s not based on where you were born, it is based on the citizenship(s) of your parents at birth.

My DC were born in the United States. They were still born British citizens.
My DB kids were born in Singapore. They were still born British citizens.

UK is pretty dystopian, personally I’d get the British citizenship and then look to leave the UK until the racists aren’t running amok in the streets like it is the 1980s again (that’s how mine and my siblings’ children got born outside the UK).
Then you are free to come back whenever, or never.

If you leave the country with just ILR, you lose it like you never had it.

An arrest on your ticket will lead to you being deemed ineligible for naturalisation, however worthy the cause.

Fight the good fight once the UK passport is in the purse.

P.S. Japan is ace. Tried it yet?