To think some women betray you faster than you’d expect and you need to be careful who you trust?

[MySharpBalonz]

I’ve seen situations where friendships have broken down over jealousy, competition or personal insecurity, and it’s often from people you thought would always have your back. It’s not about being paranoid or thinking all women are untrustworthy but I do think we’re sometimes encouraged to be too open, too soon, especially in female friendships.

AIBU to think you have to be a bit more discerning about who you really let in because some people will absolutely betray you in a heartbeat?

Yabu to think it’s a women thing in particular

The word “people” would be more reasonably applied. Nothing special about women in this instance.

I’m not exactly answering your question, though I think it’s daft to be too open, too soon with anyone, but I’m curious about your username.

Is it one of the MN-issued 3 words names? Because if it is I love that they’ve included Balonz.

Of course but why only women?

Men are just ad capable of betrayals

Haha yes, it’s one of the auto-generated ones! I clocked Balonz straight away and had to keep it. Adds a bit of chaotic charm to a serious post

Because this post is about the dynamics I’ve personally experienced, mostly with other women. It doesn’t mean men aren’t capable of betrayal too. But not everything has to be gender-balanced to be valid.

Well it seems you have been unlucky because my experiences are pretty sex independent and from the responses here it seems that’s true for quite a few others

yiu should always think twice or three times about saying something negative about a group of people who are are the “protected characteristic “ list

do you really want to propagate a myth that women are wiling to stab you in the back ?

women who are traditionally portrayed as bitchy and therefore less worthy of respect than men who are portrayed as objective ?

because when you propagate such myths carelessly you also make it harder for women to obtain respect in general society

Yes those women are awful. They should be more like men and go ahead and rape, maim and murder. Far more straightforward.

Yes some women are shitheads. Not exactly a groundbreaking revelation.

I think women friends are different from men friends though. Aren't they?

Well women are women and men are men so they will look different and their lives will have been shaped differently by society expectations so

society expectations that are often harmful especially to women - they cost us more as we need to spend more on beauty and clothes , they cost us in lost earnings and lost opportunities , in lost time as we become chief carer for kids and grandad because we have been trained that way from birth to focus on others ahead of ourselves because we don’t have a dick

YANBU on the basis that we have higher expectations from our relationship with women.

But YABU if you don't acknowledge that in general men let us down in a much more damaging way.

.

I think men and women are equally capable of betrayal, but I tend to trust women more in general. For that reason, on the thankfully rare occasion it has happened, I found it more surprising. I have become much more careful since having children and there are things I don’t discuss even with my closest friends. If there’s something I wouldn’t want to become general knowledge, I don’t discuss it. People gossip, even those who you think would never divulge something private. It’s much easier to not give them the chance.

Yes. A lesson learned over the years. Keep your own counsel - you don’t need to share everything. There always seems to be one person, female or male, in a friendship group who is straight on the phone with the latest news.

I'll take my chances rather than be friendless or pally up with a man who could be using friendship as a route to sex.

Only now in my 50s, I do feel like I know when I can and can’t trust now, and that’s because I have a very strong guard up having been really let down by my so called friends in life. I have 2 childhood girlfriends who I don’t believe I’ve any issues with but the other three I have absolutely had issues. This lead me on through life to always stand on the sidelines and not get too involved. I often thought I didn’t fit in anywhere at all and still do. Through my career I have met another three really lovely ladies that I know I can call friends two of which I meet up with every other month or so for coffee. The other, due to distance, is a regular Zoom or yearly meet up in London. I have recently started to to catch up with the child hood group but only because my sister encouraged me to come back into the fold as such, there is so much history, and we have never really talked about it so it’s so strange. There is nothing better than my own company, I’ve chosen that for a very long time now and I’m at peace with it all. However I’ve watched other friendships male and female, implode over the years for so many different and varied reasons, people naturally drifting apart, people just not fitting in, people abusing each others trusts, people who just don’t fit together, people who like to follow, people who like to control, etc etc. I still think women are mean, manipulative and calculating and that’s why I’d rather not be in a group of them for too long.

One thing I’ve learnt is to be careful of what you might wish for. I was a single mum, I really wanted to be part of the school playground ‘clipboard gang’ I felt judged for having no partner, not having the fancy car, the latest boots or coats, the fabulous husband, the ‘in’ mums and groups where so together, had it all. However turns out it was one of the most insipid toxic groups after all, only one couple still together now, the things they did to each other behind each others backs was unreal, quite an eye opener. I lived in a village ………

I’m now quite ok with being me and not having friends and being massively social. I don’t think I could cope with all the pressures that go with it.

I agree. And it always seems to be the women who bemoan not having a lot of female friends... then you soon find out why!

That being said, I truly cherish my female friendships and my life would be very empty without them.

I find it hard to see how I could be 'betrayed' by a friend. The expectation is so low - that you're in contact every so often, show interest in each other's lives, say supportive things where needed, celebrate each other's successes, often do things together by mutual arrangement. If I had a friend and they didn't do some of those things, I would just think they were a bit less nice or less interested in me or less caring of others, and I'd see them less often and ask for /give help less often.

Unless it's literally something like you've booked a holiday together and they don't turn up... how can a friend 'betray' you?

Is it, like, passing on secrets you've told them to others? Well that's likely to happen always, so don't confide in people in a stirring kind of way.

I think most people may have great or good personalities which is common enough but I think good character is extremely rare. Good character means doing the right thing even when it is difficult. In my life I can think of maybe 5 people I’ve met across my entire life who I can say that about.

Wise up!

My female friends support me like no man could. Any betrayal by a female friend would be devastating and different to being betrayed by a male friend.

Yes sadly, so much so that I now no longer have close friends that I will rely on or confide in. I have female friends, work colleagues etc but none close enough that I would trust on a personal level or I know would be there for me.
I’d been let down in the past, on one occasion so badly they dragged my primary aged DC into it (which affected them) and the fall out was horrendous.
Prior to marriage I had male friends, but know my husband would not be happy if I had any close male friends these days.
So, no, no one close. And yes it’s lonely at times (there’s events/things I’d like to do but no one to do them with) but rather that than trust and be betrayed again - it hurt, and cost, too much.

The most vicious and vindictive people I've come across in the workplace have sadly been women. Smiling knives is probably the best term to use to describe their behaviour. Its so sad because its really not necessary.

I genuinely believe one was mentally disturbed. With one of her allegedly best friends in the workplace, she was pretending to be a source of support but in the background she was sending extremely nasty emails to management full of lies about her friend trying to get her sacked.It was just so calculated and psychotic. He friend was a single mum and sole provider for her kids. She used to turn up at her friends house with a takeaway pretending to be supportive and a good friend, and sat there in her friends home knowing she was actively trying to get her sacked. The lady was furious when she found out what had been going on.

When I was having a miscarriage and had some time off work, she went through my computer and found work that hadn't been finished yet, wasn't due yet so no one needed it and still a work in progress, she submitted it to management saying it was a completed project trying to show that I wasn't any good at my job. She had turned up at my house the day before saying how she was there to support me and if there was anything I needed just to ask. It's actually quite chilling how she behaved when I look back and see how calculated she was. I was gobsmacked when someone in management showed me the email she had sent, it was horrible.

She did this to a lot of people over time and was widely known as a bunny boiler. In fairness people did try to warn me but I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. I will never again make that mistake.

Luckily her attempts to sabotage my career didn't work and I went on to go higher but it was a really eye opening experience and quite disturbing.

I have a circle of really close strong female friends and I would describe myself as a woman's woman but I have learnt the hard way not to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone. I get to know new people before I'd trust them.

Well omg @mondaystorm that's psychopathic behaviour. Poor you!!

I still wouldn't see that as being betrayed by a friend - I'd see that as unfortunately being the victim of a sociopath.

Maybe it's just the framing, there's something uncomfortable to me in describing friendship as something where betrayal is possible. I think you need to have made a huge and explicit promise to someone to be even able to betray them. Like marrying them, or promising them you will be their partner in revolution when you both go together to stab the king, or saying you'll invest in their business, or promising you won't tell the Roman soldiers where they are before the cock crows, or whatever.

Im derailing the thread, I think! Point I'm making is that betrayal is a big word, and when we apply it to the rough and tumble of everyday interactions, we'll inevitably feel let down. It makes the inevitable upsets worse, we think not only that people haven't our best interests at heart, but that they should be our friends and instead are our enemies. Just expect less of the buggers, that's what I reckon.

But it’s simply not true.

I have never betrayed a friend nor had anyone betray me. I tend to not befriend people who create drama. The worst things that friends have done is possibly gradually lose touch if they move away or our paths diverge somehow. Or double book for a night out and we rearrange. Neither of those are betrayal.