AIBU for thinking the company are liable for a workplace injury?

[Iamanicelady]

Hi all 👋🏻

Just asking some advice for a friend.

So my friends 21 year old son - who has additional needs and is not great at speaking up (the company are aware of this) - has a job as a flooring fitter for a small local company. At the start of the week, her son had to go to a job where the furniture needed to be moved - it is not in his job description to move furniture. He was told to move the furniture and, as it was heavy, he pulled a muscle in his back; he’s been in a lot of pain and has been unable to go to work. The problem is, they are saying it’s his own fault and are refusing to pay him for the time off he’s had and may need to continue to have. He has seen a doctor who said he needs to be on amended duties for his job but that is impossible as it’s all bending and kneeling down.
The issue is, he hasn’t done the manual handling training. He was sent the online course to do in November 2023 and as he hadn’t done it, they sent it to him again in February 2024. Again, he didn’t do it but no one has chased him up on this and it’s just been forgotten about. Apparently, none of the other guys he works with have done it either.
Surely the company are liable for his injury as they’ve got him to do a job that he hasn’t been trained to do and he’s hurt himself.

He's more likely to be in trouble for not doing training that they have twice signed him up to do. This is on him.

Nope they told him twice to do manual handling training which indicates manual handling is part of the role. He refused moved something either badly or that was too heavy to move alone and hurt himself. Very different if he'd done the training said no I can't lift that alone and his boss told him to do it anyway.

Surely that’s on them to make sure the training records are up to date? As I said in my post, he has additional needs and struggles with speaking up about things. He also struggles with things like ‘paperwork’ etc

But they did try to get him to do it again? He can't just not do a compulsory part of his training (twice) and then try to blame work for not training him...

It's poor that the company haven't insisted on the training and followed it up more diligently, but they've sent it to him twice and he's not done it. Why didn't he do it? Employers have a responsibility to safeguard employees, but employees also have to take some responsibility for themselves as well. You can't ignore training, get hurt and then blame the employer.

I get that but how can they send out training 18 months ago and have no one check up on it. Where I work, we get told when to do our training and what training it is. It’s not my responsibility to make sure my training is up to date, it’s my companies

He’s not in school. He’s an employed adult and he needs to take responsibility for his own compliance with company requirements.

If you read the post, you’ll see I said her son has additional needs and struggles to communicate his thoughts. This was all talked about at his interview as his mum went with him.

He didn’t actually know he’d been sent the training. It was only found on his online training the other day but it was in a different section to where it should be so he never saw it

Really? I am sent training at work with a due date, and it's my responsibility to get it done by the due date.

At risk of sounding like an old bastard, no wonder everyone complains about this generation. Nothing is ever their fault.

Just read this one to DH who has 30+ years experience as a H&S manager

his view is that it's yes and no. Yes the company should have checked he'd complied with the training requirements and stood him down until he'd done them. however as an employee he is also required to comply with what the company has asked him to do under HASAW. If he took them to tribunal he might 'win' but it would be likely that the judge would take into account his failure to do the training and his failure to refuse to move the furniture because he'd not done the training meaning any compensation would be minimal

so he could try but.....

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An adult with additional needs. His mum had to go to the interview with him and made it clear he wasn’t good with stuff like that. To put it bluntly, he’s good with his hands, not his brain

Why didn't he do the mandatory training, it's irrelevant that his colleagues haven't done it. Who told him to move the furniture? Is there a clause in his contract or training manual about not completing training. Can he claim ssp, how long has he worked there. It sounds like both are equally at fault.

And my work is exactly the same. But this was sent out and never followed up on. In fact, he never even saw the training until the other day as he found it in a different section of his training

Did his mum know he didn't attend training

I think if he pursues it he will be out of a job. bluntly. Is that what he wants? Is that in his best interest?
do you want to go down the disability discrimination route or an amicable agreement and a reasonable adjustment moving forward.

its a tough gig on you back and knees- a carpet fitter would reasonable expect to have a stiff back and a bad knees after a few years?

the question is what do you want? As sense of justice and what you perceive as the moral high ground or a reasonable compromise?

I’m surprised he was allowed to proceed with the work without having completed the training, to be honest. My partner works a safety critical role and if his certifications are allowed to time out he’s not allowed to work on site until they’re renewed. No exceptions, very simple, everyone knows where they stand. (It’s possible his industry is stricter than in OP’s example, of course.) If I were the employer I would want documentary evidence that safety training had been completed to avoid precisely this situation where I’m accused of being at fault for the misadventure of an untrained staff member. I think there’s blame on both sides here.

I feel like you’re maybe making a few too many excuses for him, but ultimately I think you’re right. If manual handling is part of his job, it’s the company’s responsibility to make sure the training is up to date. It’s not just a tickbox exercise where you fire out an e-module and leave it at that.

That said, wouldn’t it ultimately come down to what his contract says about sick pay?

You’re wrong there - it is BOTH you and your employers’ responsibility.

He should be paid SSP after three days - they cannot not pay that. He needs a Fit note to be signed off.

He’s worked there for about 3 years. He does flooring. The rooms they are putting the floors down in have to be cleared of furniture by the owner so the team can go in and get the job done. On this occasion, they got to the house and there was an elderly lady who hadn’t moved anything out. The boss charged her a fee to move the furniture and got the team to do it. Moving furniture is not in his contract and they don’t usually have to do it (which is probably why they weren’t bothered that the manual handling course was done) but the guy in charge told them to do it and he didn’t question it because of his additional needs. It was moving this heavy antique furniture that caused him to hurt his back

Realistically what light duties could he do, what other duties would he be able to do. He can contact acas for advice.

Of course it's your responsibility - youre an adult

As another poster said, I despair of this generation. Take some responsibility and complete the training that’s been sent twice.

He will be entitled to SSP

Would posters have a different opinion if he had flipped through 10 slides on an e-module?

Very likely he would have still pulled a muscle, seems harsh for the boss to refuse sick pay for an injury at work.