A wave of illiterate “home schooled” children

[RedSkyatNight25]

Prepared to get torn apart, and I know many homeschool because the school environment isn’t right for their children (SEN, sensory issues - whatever else) and their needs aren’t met by school with a chronic lack of SEN placements and too much demand etc. I’m not naive to that. I also know some parents with adequate resource will ensure their children have a rounded education whilst being homeschooled.

But there seems to be a movement to homeschooling by people who are simply anti establishment with a point to prove. Their grammar and communication on social media tells me they’re not equipped to homeschool a child. Not least I think the socialisation and soft skills school provides are hugely important too. I suspect most of these parents either haven’t considered the benefits of school or hugely underestimated it, especially past primary are parents really equipped to teach ALL the subjects with sufficient skill if they lack the knowledge themselves? Are they not underestimating the skills and expertise of qualified teachers?

AIBU to think it’s really concerning? These are the next generation of our workforce and infrastructure. I personally think we are hugely privileged to live in a country with free education - I know it’s not perfect but I’m not convinced homeschooling is better for a vast majority.

Well yes but you also cannot tell your manager to fuck off or throw your office chair across the room if asked to listen to an instruction. You aren’t allowed to grab co-workers by the scruff of their shirts either.

Your employer can fire you on the spot for behaviour teachers are expected to put up with numerous times a day.

And if you do get told off at work your mummy and/or daddy can’t storm into your boss’s office shouting and screaming about how nothing is your fault either.

Kimura

Bullying, fighting, losing friends...it's part of growing up. A horrible part, sure. But more and more these days I'm seeing . I think it's partly because we're catastophising things, tearing kids away from situations the second they get upset instead of teaching them how to deal with it.
Instead we're pulling them out of school and telling them they've been traumatized.

You're saying that it's now more and more common for young kids entering the workforce with zero capability to handle conflict or disagreements. Have these kids been home educated?

There is no doubt that some children are being failed being out of a classroom. But what can you do? If parents decide that that is where their children will be, this is free choice in our society for parents to make those decisions for their child.

There was a documentary about an independent school set up by parents who were totally down the conspiracy hole. The kids appeared ok, being taught some things but also being taught conspiracy theories and utterly crazy stuff. But hey in this day and age making a living as a conspiracy content creator is a thing!

It’s a funny old word.

School isn’t the best days of your life for some, but then neither is work or parenting or marriage or retirement.

People make dumb decisions all the time, some of those are home schooling, some staying in miserable marriages, having a child or not saving for retirement. What has changed is everyone expects the state to then bail them out of their bad decisions. And then get annoyed if it can’t.

So it feels like prison for some kids then.

Prison is horrific by nature isn't it? Id be horrified to think I was sending my child into 'prison' 5 days a week. But it's not, it's school.

💯

The fact that home ed exists is exactly why school isn't like prison. There is a choice. Kids at primary school, sure they can't just leave, but that's the same at home! I have rules in my house too. It's still not prison. At secondary school, kids can just leave, it's a choice. Yes there'll probably be repercussions, but it's still a choice.

School is school. Prison is prison. Yes there are similarities because both aim to keep a number of people safe but ultimately they are nothing alike.

I didn't tell me child school traumatised them.
I watched my child deteriorating before my eyes. I watched my once bubbly child withdraw and become suicidal.

Until you meet/witness children going through traumatic response to school you will.have no idea. I hope you never have to be on suicide watch for your child

And if a colleague or manager screamed at you the way some children experience at work you have a complaint process.

If a colleague sexually adults you at work their is a process

You don't have to keep going into a work place where abuse is happening and suck it up the law protects you at work

I would home Ed my children if I’d exhausted other options. I don’t judge people for that decision. I agree school doesn’t suit everyone and think that making a best interest decision for your child is the job of parents.

My issue is about people who are withdrawing their children for self serving, arrogant views.

NB - that’s not directed at you Loch, but just a contribution to the thread.

My friend has withdrawn her very bright, child, he has SEN and just cannot cope in secondary, he has tutors. If he stayed in school he wouldn’t have managed any learning, this way he’ll get some qualifications, I suspect he’ll go into tech or IT or another job that requires minimal engagement. My own job is exclusively WFH with only a few hours each week of meetings. Although could equally be done in an office. So it’s possible - although I’m quite senior and as a junior you’d absolutely have to go in so I suppose you can’t always bypass social contact completely.

It's wild. If you can't play the piano you wouldn't try teaching someone piano. If you don't know how to drive you wouldn't give someone driving lessons. So why do so many people think they have the ability to teach a whole curriculum? Teaching is a skill, some people will be naturally better at it than others, but even they have to learn and practice

Have you actually read the comments on this thread on the different ways that a home ed education works?

Many posters have explained that your theory above is not how it works at all. I don't know one single home educator who believes that they can teach the whole curriculum.

There's a few variations. Words, sayings, and useage change over time.

Short version: A stool pigeon is also a decoy, and Kid Creole and the coconuts made the term fashionable as it's usage as an informer for a time in the 1980's, but it's usage very much predates that.

Long version: It first formally appeared with both words together around 1820 as 'stale pigeon', with stale believed to derive from the Frence 'estale' - a decoy that was used to entice hawks into a net. And 'pigeon' a term for a gullible individual who believed whatever they where told.

(there is an almost certainly incorrect etymology regarding a passenger pigeon hunting practice in the US, combined with the 16thC imported English word 'stoale' for a tree stump, claimed in the US in the 1870's)

But the two words appearing side by side thoroughly predate the phrase.

In the 15thC it's in the English language as a 'stale', a creature who baits or entraps another' as in Shakespeare’s The Tempest, when Prospero demands of Ariel:
“The trumpery in my house, go bring it hither for stale to catch these thieves.”

An alternative spelling was 'stall' appearing in records to describe the decoy who distracts, so that the pickpocket can get in to rob the target. Actually still in use with 'stall' or 'stalling for time.'

The decoy got exactly the same sentence as the pickpocket, yet far less of the spoils, and is thus described as a 'pickpockets pigeon' - a foolish or gullible person already, but in this usage one that becomes a decoy.

The decoy often turned on their pickpocket to save themselves when caught, and by 1840 is being referred to as a 'stale pigeon', which starts to be spelt as 'stool pigeon' and the verbs 'stool' and 'stooling' are in use for treacherous informing, as well as 'stall' and 'stalling' for decoying behaviors.

By the 1920's it's become the slang word 'stoolie' for an informer, and a 'stool pigeon' in America, is entirely used other than in hunting circles, to describe a criminal informer, but in England it is still in use as both, especially during WW1 meaning either a decoy or informer.

In the 1960's 'stool pigeon' is in use mainly only appearing in slang, as either an informer, or for a male using decoy tactics to put women on the back foot defending themselves. (argued as to if this emerged from feminists, or prostitutes)
The chess board saying with 'stool pigeon' as don't bother arguing with a 'foolish decoy', was in use during the 1972 Boris Fischer vs Spassky chess tournaments, and is believed to have emerged from Russian Jewish diaspora circles when Fischer foolishly chose to use antisemitism as decoying behavior to deflect any possible notice of his Jewish ancestry and was known for eccentric behaviors, including allegedly sweeping the pieces from the board, thus not worth playing with, regardless of his popularity.

*It's wild. If you can't play the piano you wouldn't try teaching someone piano *

I have 2 self taught musicians here. There are lots of ways to learn other than being directly shown.

One of my children is studying for a science based GCSE that is not available in school (it may be in some private schools). So one of the plusses is they get to study things that wouldn't usually be on their radar.
They have an online lesson weekly plus homework and then meet up with their group for the field studies. To be fair, we could probably learn together with the text book as there is a Facebook group for it with plenty of additional resources and while it's science, it's not rocket science but the course is inexpensive and is paced to whizz through in a year, which is the timescale we need. As they near the exam I'll probably be more involved with helping with exam technique and in helping to decipher the marking schemes when they start practising past papers.

My issue is about people who are withdrawing their children for self serving, arrogant views.

Yeah i do agree with you on this, as well as your other points. I know someone who seems to have anti establishment type views around school and thinks it is awful for all kids regardless of whether they like it or not. She posts stuff on FB about school making kids into robots for the government and other stuff along those lines. She seems to feel sorry for me 'having to' go to work and my kids 'having to' go to childcare and school, not realising or wanting to see that it's the best choice for our family and I am happy with that.

I am pro home ed generally though and would do it as a last resort if required. Last resort because of the implications for my work which we need for financial reasons, not because it's a bad choice.

No. The home-educated ones cant get jobs!

That's bull by the way.
Lots of home educated people work.
There is no reason that being home educated makes them unemployable.

Not everyone who goes to school will work either

Every adult who was home educated that I know works full time, either employed by a company or running their own business. I'd love to see the source for your statement.

Statistics will show you thst a child is most likely to suffer physical abuse or sexual assault in their own home.

Ok, so we've established that people get very defensive if you compare school to prison - noted 🤭

For those who got defensive without reading my original post, I wonder if you could clear something up. I was responding to the following:

I think the majority of school educated children can keep their mouth shut and follow an instruction even if they don't desperately want to. No child loves every lesson and wants to do every activity but most aren't "kicking off" daily. Its very different to following instructions at home or at an extra curricular activity that they presumably choose to attend.

Could someone explain to me why following instructions at school is "very different" to following them at home or at an extra curricular activity? 🤔

Those who were home ed on average get better results than state educated im sure I've read. And I can't find the source now but somewhere I'd read said people who were home ed but structured, get results slightly better than state educated, and those who were home ed but unstructured/unschooled get results less than than state educated. I think the latter was US based though. Obviously all only statistics and everyone's different so do better in different environments but I don't agree that home ed automatically equals poor results or unemployment. I think the parents focus on education, whether home or school, is probably a key part of it which I think pp raised up thread.

Is this science gcse astronomy by any chance? If so, my kids took that at gcse at a state school as well as chemistry, physics and biology, not instead of.
Genuine question - how do home-educators teaching gcse chemistry for example, get the practical work done and assessed?

Ok, so we've established that people get very defensive if you compare school to prison

Obviously! And this kind of thing gives home edders a bad name. I don't see how comparing school to prison is any different to saying that home ed is neglectful. People who home ed are (rightly) defensive when people say that they're neglecting their kids education, or their kids won't get good results or a job. Neither are true. We don't have to be offensive about the opposite choice.

Partly because we don't formally properly collect statistics on children suffering physical abuse and or sexual assault in schools, especially at 'lower levels' of bullying and sexual assault, but even when they suffer broken bones from act of violence, are stabbed, shot at, raped or suffer forced sexual acts, we don't collect the information centrally, while we do for what happens in a child's home, as long as there home isn't a care home.
We don't even collect statistical information on child deaths on school premises, they are hidden within the general annual child mortality rates.

Every incident that can't be hidden is treated as an isolated incident, so we don't need statistics on unrelated incidents.

No it's not astronomy and yes, they are also doing biology, chemistry, physics. They are able to do experiments. We're quite good at networking and sniffing out helpful resources.

I'll bite. What is your source for that? How did you arrive at this enlightening bit of information?

My home ed teens are in college doing A-Levels, and thriving. Please explain how being home educated through GCSE's will affect their ability to get a job post-college.

That's funny - all I've seen throughout this thread is people being offensive about home ed, and when we call it out, we're called defensive. I even had someone call my home environment "suffocating" for the sole reason that I'm disabled. Now you understand how this thread has felt for home educating parents!