To reject trainee surgeon?

[RunningThroughMyHead]

My young child is on the wait list for eye surgery. It’s a complex surgery with risks of blindness or other permanent eye issues if not done correctly. These risks have been explained to us but the benefits outweigh the risks.

My husband took him to the last appointment and the surgeon explained that a student surgeon may undertake all or part of the surgery under his supervision. My husband nodded along as far as I can tell.

Whilst I fully understand that healthcare professionals need to practice, perhaps selfishly, I don’t want my son practiced on. I wouldn’t forgive myself if something happened and I want someone well experienced to do the full surgery.

AIBU to request/insist on this?

This happens in most surgery. The consultant or registrar will stand back for a period and let someone more junior take over - this is not unusual at all. It is how progress is made and new surgeons are available for the future. It is happening every day, everywhere.

The surgeon will not be handing your child over to some unqualified person to operate on unsupervised. Please be reassured about this. I know you are anxious - who would not be? - but I really do not think you have anything to worry about.

One hundred percent NOT being unreasonable! I would insist on an experienced surgeon! You can't replace an eye.

Sending love. I hope the surgery goes well. Can imagine how worrying this all is for you.

@snappyshopper thank you so much for your support on this thread. The first few pages were pretty brutal, it’s comforting to know I’m not being “ridiculous” or “entitled”. Thanks 🙂

You are getting someone well experienced.

Why do you keep calling them a student? A student is someone still in medical school. The registrars are what the American system calls resident doctors or fellows. The term junior doctor has completely undermined a whole cohort of doctors for a generation.

Patients worry they are getting some nervous nelly operating when its usually someone whose wholly competent and actually well versed on the surgery having commited many hours to it.

With your csection you would've most likely had a registrar and a more junior colleague. Maybe even a gp trainee rotating onto the obstetrics and gynaecology for experience.

FFS - they are experienced surgeons and they won’t be operating without a consultant present. How do you expect people to learn or are you just happy for that to be down to other people ?

I never consent to students, no matter how experienced they are. If I'm not asked for consent, I question why I wasn't asked & order students out of the room. I once consented to a student anaesthetist, never again. I'd assumed there would be a certain level of competence before they're given actual humans. Unfortunately, I was wrong. No way would I let one near any person I value.

Probably not qualified, and yet questions how these things work ?

Exactly!! Op hasnt a clue , hence questions and misunderstanding!! 🤦‍♀️

So you think no patient should be able to ask questions? How do you expect them to give informed consent then? We ask so we can gain understanding.

Why shouldn't someone ask questions? If someone is operating on me then I have every right to ask whatever I like. DH didn't like the answers he got from his consultant so changed to a different one, why should he have someone he doesn't trust operating on him?

That’s really reassuring, I’m glad you had a great outcome!

We aren't talking about students here.

Resident doctors (e.g. not consultants) are still highly trained and highly experienced. They just aren't operating completely independently yet.

It wouldn't be someone unqualified OP. It will be a fully qualified doctor with years of experience who is on their way to qualify at consultant level.
I can understand why you are worried but I think it will be fine. We need our future doctors to have training and experience. Under the close supervision of a consultant of course. Which is what would be happening for your son.
Hope it goes ok 🙏🌻

How do people get experience?

I do expect them to ask questions. I have myself, most recently when I had surgery for breast cancer. But the op is making ridiculous assumptions that the doctor is not qualified and refers to them as a ‘trainee’ which is just ridiculous. Do you think they let just anyone loose with a scalpel ?

What do you expect me to do then? Undertake a medical degree before my child has the surgery? Or just shut up and not ask any questions?

Have you never heard of patient advocacy? In other parts of the world, and often in the UK, patients are encouraged to ask questions, advocate for themselves and their families, think critically. It was just yesterday when a thread was supporting an OP to trust her instincts despite a GP saying nothing was wrong with her child.

Yet I’m being ridiculed for asking questions when I’m not a healthcare professional?

Im well within my rights to have concerns and ask questions. I’m so thankful for those who have passed on information in a kind way, it’s really helped.

Calling me clueless? No help at all.

This is how I feel after a very bad experience with a surgical registrar involving my child.

Exactly.

I think there is some confusion on this thread about the word 'student'.
I am sure that a lot of posters understand that they are doctors, (not still at uni) but are not yet specialists.

I once consented to a student anaesthetist
Sure this OP knew it was a qualified dr not an 18 year old.

you have to be a dr already so not a student per se but working towards your specialism.

You know how.

But patients do not have to consent.

That's the whole point of this thread.

It's tough I know. I've missed so much work lately - my boss is definitely not impressed.

As it happens, DS did have a more junior surgeon yesterday but this was a follow up surgery and required less expertise than the first one did. Yesterday he was back in recovery in under 45 mins whilst the original one lasted about 5 hours.

So obviously not the same as it was less "crucial". But yes, I totally understand where you're coming from as a mum - we all want our kids to be looked after properly and I don't think you're bring unreasonable to be anxious.

Fab for you though that there are so many medical "experts" on here who can so definitively advise you and correct any of the posters (like me) who've given some advice they don't think is 100 percent accurate.

For what it's worth, and to those who "corrected" me, your GP might very well be able to offer some reassurance (especially with more common surgeries that they've had patients go through many times). Also, in my area, medical records are updated "live" via some fancy -shmancy system. Our GP practice rang me on the way home from hospital yesterday to arrange nurse based wound care appointments for DS as they'd received it all electronically.

And thank you for asking, DS is fine if a little crabby today 🙈

I’ve been in and out of hospital all my life due to congenital disability and to my knowledge there is no such thing as a ‘student’ anaesthetist.

Really?

They carry on doing exams even though they are working.