About my DS’s music lesson

[IDontLikeMondays88]

DS is 5 and has recently joined a recorder group pitched at beginners - for 5-11 year olds.

the other children are 8 and already play other instruments and read music.

We are on lesson 2 and I am finding the teacher sounds frustrated with DS at times. For example all week we have practiced a certain note. In the lesson she added a new note and was then getting frustrated I think that he couldn’t instantly get the fingering.

I think he will get the fingering with some practice but he is 5 and just doesn’t have the fine motor skills of an 8 year old who plays another instrument. I did say to her that I was concerned he was a bit younger than the others before signing up to the lessons but she assured me it would be fine!

just to be clear I was expecting him to find it tricky and that he would need to practice but it is more her sounding frustrated and putting him on the spot that I am not happy with. I want him to find the group fun and am worried it’s not going to be fun!

he was also expected to be able to read a simple
piece of music today and play it. He just can’t do this yet it’s his second lesson - the other children can already read music so they could do it. She drew attention to the fact he hadn’t managed to do this and pointed out he’d been “lost”.

I am now just not sure about the lessons even though he is very keen to go.

AIBU to want to say to this teacher to be patient with him? How will I nicely say this to her?

I think a big clue for you would have been that everyone is 8. Why would you have thought this is a right class for him?

It doesn't sound as if the teacher has any experience of teaching young children.
Above all else you need patience!
As others have said, maybe wait until he's a little older to join a group after doing some basics one to one ( if you or someone else can help him).
Sometimes I have parents sign 5year olds for 30min individual piano lessons in school. Generally I suggest they reduce to 20mins as 30min is too long for them (depending on the child). Sometimes a shared lesson can work better.

I do this for a living - arranging groups of children in schools for music lessons across various teachers of various instruments.

The situation is ridiculous. There is no way on Earth a 5 year old beginner should be with a group of 8 year olds who can already read music and be expected to keep up with them, or even to benefit particularly from the lessons. You don't just work out how to read music after one lesson any more than you do words, and it isn't necessarily the best thing to be concentrating on in lesson 1 or 2 anyway. And anyone with any sense of child development can tell the huge cognitive and coordination differences between those ages.

I'd wager the teacher is paid by number of students and wants the money. That or they're completely clueless. Either way, forget it. If he enjoys it and is positive then maybe wind down naturally at the end of term without renewing to avoid making a big deal of it. And then find him something appropriate.

You must the only parent in the world encouraging their kid not to leave a recorder class

this is the wrong lesson for your kid. The teacher is inexperienced or desperate for money.
ask for a refund until she has a class suitable for him - ie with other kids of a similar level.

This is not fun and quite frankly ridiculous of her to put you in this position.

your poor kid.

They probably hoped to do a beginner group then he was the only one who signed up so they squished him in with a group who've already been learning a while - frustrating for everyone.

Sadly a lot of music teachers nowadays seem to do stuff like this without a thought for the experience of the child and its probably the quickest way to end up with them just giving it up

Piano is a better starter instrument.

you can get cheap keyboards rather than a full on piano and there are lots of books that teach the keys and how to read music at a pace appropriate for a 5 year old.

group classes at this level only work if the children really are at the same level which clearly isn’t the case.

It sounds to me like she’s just doing it for the money: The more pupils she can put in the class, the more financial gain for her.
He might well be resilient at this stage and very keen but if she’s already pointing out his weaknesses (eg. He got lost reading music when it’s something he’s never been taught 😡) it won’t be long before this teacher impacts his self-esteem. Go and find him another teacher where he can join a class that is is more age and ability appropriate 😊

I'd start a child in an individual music lesson especially at 5. Playing in a group is a whole different thing, which he'll be much better able for with confidence in himself.
Just to say I actually started in 2 groups at 5 and 7 and started my own children in individual lessons.

I am surprised to see that the recorder is still in fashion. Such an old fashioned, dreary sounding instrument.

It was popular in the fifties and sixties to teach basic music to Primary School children how to read music and play a reasonably priced to buy instrument .

Carl Dolmetsch, Haslemere etc. used to have the last world on all of this.

Don't know slightest thing about private music lessons. But surely nowadays there must be masses of electronic, computer keyboard based instruments children can learn to play. Maybe with online Tutors.

That teacher sounded very unprofessional. I. would ask for a refund.

I started out with recorder at 5. No issues with dexterity. Probably depends on the individual child, but it’s not a blanket “not suitable” for this age group.

I am an instrumental teacher of many years’ experience and I think that the recorder is a brilliant instrument to start on. However I do think that five is too young to start formal music lessons in a group setting, especially with more experienced children who are older and have been learning a while. I wouldn’t worry about withdrawing him from this class. Any decent teacher will understand. I would try again when he is around seven or eight as he will pick up reading music much more quickly and will also be able to control and coordinate the instrument. In the meantime, I would let him have fun on percussion instruments and listening to lots of different styles of music. Is there a singing class/club he could join? This would be a much more positive experience as he will be able to enjoy learning songs without having to worry about reading music or coordinating an instrument.

I agree with pp saying he might be better trying again in a couple of years. The current class isn't right for him. Every child is different.
I disagree that recorder is dreary and old fashioned though. DD started with recorder and moved on to saxophone with ease. It is a manageable instrument for a child IMO.

I am an instrumental teacher of many years’ experience and I think that the recorder is a brilliant instrument to start on.

Agreed, it can be a great instrument for young kids. Single line of music so not the same complexity issues as piano. Simple (mostly) logical fingering. And just because some adults have negative associations with it doesn't mean kids will - in fact that OP said that the kid felt positive abut it.

However I do think that five is too young to start formal music lessons in a group setting

It depends how formal. Grouping the child with much older, more experienced children is clearly the problem. A group lesson of 3 or 4 5-year-olds, run relatively informally by someone with a genuine sense of their stage of development, can be a great way to start.

Not all children are ready for learning an instrument at 5. If you think he is ready I would find him either 1:1 lessons or lessons in a group with other beginners, not 8 year olds who already play.

@Worriedalltheday i thought the class might be suitable as it was advertised as 5-11. I specifically asked the teacher about the age gap and she thought it would be ok. Then I think quickly regretted it!
so I am not sure the fault really lies with me…

@SemiRetiredLoveGoddeess i don’t think the recorder is dreary - it’s a good starter instrument and you can go on to do other perhaps slightly more interesting instruments like clarinet, bagpipes etc.
he was actually really interested in it.

however I have now pulled him out the class - I just said that the other children were too old and she agreed to refund me for the lessons we paid for in advance. I have said to him I will try and find him a more suitable class whether it is a formal lesson or more like a music and movement type class so he was ok about that. I think it is really the dexterity that was an issue so perhaps it’s something to go back to when he is a little older.

@Violinist64 thanks for your suggestions - yes I think I will try and find a more general music type class with children the same age

That sounds like the perfect solution OP.

I agree with this.

A music group where children play together is never going to be for complete "beginners" unless the instruments are all percussion. The group may be for people who are just learning, but not for complete beginners. The lady running the group should have told you this. I play cello and piano and went to music classes quite early on but not until I could sight read music and find the basic notes. If a class is a joint class for many people, I would expect this to be the level he needs to be. I don't see how a teacher could teach more basically than that to multiple kids at once. Don't blame you though, the teacher should have told you this.

It is absolutely possible to have group lessons for complete beginners. That’s how I started both the recorder and cello - and I have sat in on far too many beginner group violin lessons. Individual lessons were always when you got better at it.

Teaching a group of children to read music and the basics isn’t difficult, provided they are all complete beginners. The issue here is not that it’s a group, it’s that the children aren’t all complete beginners.