Chimney Breast Dilemma!!!

[Poppie2023]

Hi all,

I’ve just bought a Victorian two-bedroom property. Post-purchase, it was brought to my attention that:

• Ground floor lounge: chimney breast has been removed at the far end and no visible evidence of support (could be hidden) though no cracks or sagging.

• Bedroom 2 directly above: chimney breast still intact with stack in the loft.

Somehow the level three survey didn’t flag this (I’m challenging it) and there’s no documentation about existing support either.

Looking at old floor plans, the ground floor breast appears to have been gone for decades.

Options I’m weighing:

1. Remove bedroom 2’s chimney breast and install support for the stack. My local authority allows Gallo brackets, but my structural engineer said that I would have to put an RSJ which would run through bedroom two and through to the master bedroom (bedroom one) —causing more damage than I’d planned.
2. Leave the breast in bedroom 2 and support it from the lounge ceiling below—maybe simpler and less invasive. I might even discover existing support.

Other points:

• Bedroom 2 is small, fits a double bed, but the chimney breast limits space and flexibility. (of course I can use the alcoves to install shelves wardrobes, etc)
• Weighing cost, scaffolding, skips, and damage to extra room vs. extra space.
• Long-term: loft could become a bigger third bedroom.
• Funds are available for the chimney breast work, but it’s not what I had planned to spend them on.

What would you do? Is the extra space in bedroom 2 really worth all this hassle? The house has lots of potential and well sized, but I don’t know if it’s my forever home. It’s currently stripped bare so any messy work would need to be decided now.

I know this is a super long thread but any advice would be much appreciated.

Lift some floorboards in bed 2 to look what is supporting the chimney breast. If it seems OK (and chances are it is otherwise it would have collapsed), I probably wouldn't bother removing it.

I would see about taking down the chimney stack as well. No intrusive supports or RSJs Try to match tile on roof but to be honest nobody really notices that high up if they are a different colour. No future worry about leaking round old stack, failing pointing, Downside is you would probably have to pay for scaffolding but we watch them do this on the house opposite and it was done in a couple of days. ps see if you can sell the chimney pots

@helibirdcomp thanks for your advise. The neighbours still have there’s in so I can’t remove the stack. I’m even worried that they may not sign the party wall agreement, so I’ve factored that in as an added cost in preparation for party wall surveyors .

@Ablondiebutagoody thanks for your advise. Actually one of the builders did a quick check, but, I’ll double check as he was a little vague.

We removed our chimney breast on the ground floor, put supports in and kept the one in our bedroom. The house still had the original fireplace in our bedroom which is very pretty and adds character. If you don’t have an original fireplace, could you buy a reclaimed fireplace and install it, make it a feature in the room?

@user593 Hi, thanks for your post. Did they support with an RSJ and was it flush in the ceiling?

Yes, and yes, it is flush with the ceiling, but for unrelated reasons we dropped the ceiling a little in the room below anyway, so I’m not sure if it would have been had we not done that (but I expect so, I’ve seen other houses the exact same as ours where they’ve also lost the ground floor fireplace and there’s no visible RSJ).

@user593 Thank you! I actually wouldn’t be surprised if there is an RSJ hidden in the ceiling. I may need to expose part of the ceiling or try and check under the upstairs floorboards again, but either way, as I don’t have any paperwork, a structural engineer (SE) would still need to confirm safety and then I’d have to get retrospective building control approved. Given all of this, ,a builder and SE advised that if it is not adequately supported I’m better off cost wise, removing the upstairs chimney breast and fitting a gallows bracket (or RSJ)as I will gain extra space. They advised that the expense to fit an RSJ from the ground floor would be the same pricing to fit an RSJ upstairs (without the scaffolding I’m assuming). I’m now swaying towards the gallows bracket as the work required is much less intrusive. I love the character of period properties and will be keeping the rest of the fireplaces but this one might need to go unfortunately, but I will miss the alcoves 🥺

If there is a steel beam in there and no signs of distress, why would you need to involve a structural engineer and get retrospective building regs?

@Ablondiebutagoody good question and I’d really rather not involve any of them. The hassle of a party wall agreement and so on. There really is no sign of distress and Builders have come in and commented the same and I also suspect it was done a long time ago as mentioned previously based on old floor plans. But I worry that not having relevant paperwork or a structural engineer confirming safety would make me irresponsible and could cause me problems later such as the risks of if it were to come down collapsing from poor installation. Or what if my neighbour wanted to take theirs down and had questions, I really wouldn’t have an answer for the changes that have been done in my home and how it could affect there’s.

Find out if it's supported internally first and then make a plan if needed. You can remove your side of breast and stack without affecting use of neighbours side – this is much cheaper than adding support.

Yes, gallows brackets are a much easier solution, but you will still need party wall agreement to take out the remaining section of breast and add the gallows. Other things to bear in mind: you can't use them on a wall that is less than 225mm thick, the projection of the breast is more than 340mm – or more than 150% of the thickness of the supporting wall, or neighbour has brackets on their side, if the bricks and mortar are in poor condition. You also still need building regs approval.

It would be your neighbours structural engineers responsibility to investigate the existing situation before doing any structural work. Not your problem.

My point is that when buying a house, it isn't standard practice to call in an engineer to double check all the stuff that's been done over the years. In fact if we did, they would never be able to justify to modern standards anyway.

If it was me and there is a beam, it's not deflected significantly, there's no cracking etc, and it's likely been there for years, I would be comfortable with that.

Thanks @Ablondiebutagoody I take your point and appreciate all your advise.

Thanks Didimum. Lots of helpful info in your post. I’ve decided I’m removing the chimney breast and will support the stack based on the engineers recommendation.