ASD son's attitude

[ellie09]

Hi all

I have an 8 yo ASD son whose attitude is becoming really hard to deal with.

I have tried grounding - taking away devices, early bedtime.. It hasn't worked

He gets pocket money and we deduct money for every strike. He gets to £0 and he still doesnt care

We do lots of activities for his interests. He gets everything he could ever want. Yet I still get cheek, kick back and general attitude

What works for kids this age? I am at my wits end

I have a 7 year old son who is not diagnosed but his school and the GP think he's autistic so he's awaiting diagnosis.

One of the biggest mistakes I've made is giving him everything he could ever want. I've started to really pull back on it now. I do still treat him, and he gets pocket money for helping me with things around the house. The more he helps me with, the more money he earns.

My son gives me so much attitude and talks to me awfully even when I buy him something he likes. He does it less when he gets things from the charity shop though (which is where he gets the majority of his toys).

Start buying him things from the charity shop, if you don't already. Give him a set amount to spend every month. Make a chart if you have to (that you can write on and then rub off the writing) showing what he's spent and how much he has left.

And if he kicks off, or has a meltdown, don't give in! You can empathise with his meltdowns while also still holding the same boundaries.

It's bloody hard, and it seems more exhausting to fight about things which is why we give in. But, and I promise I'm saying this out of kindness, you're only making things harder for yourself in the long run if you don't start forming boundaries.

Sending hugs x

Why are you treating him as a NT? Normal sanctions and punishments don’t work for ASD. It’s generally anxiety driving his behaviour. Why are you punishing him for this?

Try ignoring everything but the most horrendous and reward the good. And if he’s 8, his emotional development is about age 5 or 6.

What do you mean by "attitude?" Are you telling him he has a "bad attitude" or "don't be cheeky," because those are very abstract concepts. I've got no idea from your post what he is doing and if you're using those terms then he might have very little idea either of what he is doing wrong or or what he should do to change it.

He does have an attitude! Even though he is ND, I know the difference.

He got right in my face today and said "what are you going to do about it?". I said I would put on the last strike so he has no pocket money, and he said "I don't give a shit"

I take his tablet, electronics away, and he decides to respond by telling me "he doesnt care".

It feels like I am parenting a teen rather than a young child at times.

Don’t parent him like that then. It’s obviously not working. You’re just putting more anxiety and overwhelm on him.

We so this already - we have a whiteboard with his strikes noted but once he knows its nearly gone, ge doesnt care anymore.

Once his.pocket money is gone, we sanction his electronic time etc. He still doesnt care. If he continues, he goes to bed, but he still gets up/down etc.

Its a nightmare.

I may sanction how much he can spend per week - he currently has £10 which has £1 off for every strike (a strike is every huge meltdown and if he doesnt say sorry)

He has £0 for this week, as if it falls more than 5+ strikes, his pocket money is £0

This parenting style is notoriously ineffective on ASD children.

it tends to result in them seeing you as the enemy and going to a lot of effort to piss you off, on the “she hurt me so I’ll hurt her principle”.

that attitude will not change until you change your parenting style.

What do you suggest then?

What are your suggestions then?

I went on this great neurodiverse parenting course - the way forward is to work out the signs he is going in the wrong direction and develop strategies to refocus him before he makes mistakes. By signs I mean what happens to his physically ie does he start to talk faster etc

Suggestions:

1 frame things positively. So rather than “you didn’t do X so I’m taking away 1 pound of your pocket money” have it as “ if you manage to do X then you get an extra 1 on your pocket money.”

this means that you can be positive about the times he does X - eg saying well done you and bigging him up - rather than negative about the times he doesn’t.

thbk about how you respond to stuff he says.

so if he aays “you can’t make me” you can say (for example) “no, I can’t make you brush your teeth. But it keeps your teeth healthy if you brush them and they smell nice and clean. I want to help you stay healthy”.

then he’s trying to fight you but you are not giving him a fight. And more, you are clear that you are trying to help him.

this sort of thing doesn’t work me immediately but you’d be surprised how much sinks in after only a few days.

This all sounds very punitive and combative.

I'd personally remove all threats and sanctions.

What sorts of things are flash points? What was the situation before he got up in your face?

I like low demand parenting with a lot of empathy. It probably helps that I'm ND too.

I'm calm, I'm kind, I try and put myself in their shoes a lot. Things like chores, pocket money, nice things like tea out aren't linked to performance goals or behaviour.

I model a lot for them to pick up on eg calm, manners, non combative, etc. I have the ethos that everyone in a family pitches in. So from being little we all tidy up, we all pitch in with things like taking the recycling out or putting laundry in the machine because we are a team. It's not about helping or being good it's just what people that live in a house together do. Very factual and neutral.

This time of year September is really tough for ND kids. I keep it as low demand as possible outside of school for mine this time of year. It's a lot of adjustment and stress for them going back to school after six weeks off.

My point is, don't take away money for what he doesn't do - give him money for what he DOES do. Neurodivergent kids typically don't have control over what they say or do - though obviously sometimes, it is just general bad behaviour.

You shouldn't be striking for meltdowns though. They literally can't be helped. If anything, by striking for meltdowns, you're teaching him to mask. This will not be helpful to him, now or in the future.

Yes, YOU know the difference - not entirely clear that he does though. These things are massively difficult for ND children to navigate - that line between "adorable cheek" for which some children get praised or laughter because they know where the line is and when to rein it in, versus just a bit grumpy, versus "being downright unpleasant."

With my autistic child I would

• remind about personal space, or a very clear "do not put your face right in mine, thank you"
• collaborate - write down the rules together when you are both calm, so what is not okay and what you are going to do about it are clear.
• make consequences related to the behaviour - it doesn't sound as though he's able to connect his 'attitude' with loss of possessions, so he will just feel you're being mean to him and he's justified in being mean back.
• Say explicitly what it is that I don't want: "you're not allowed to swear in this house, find a way to say that without swearing."

Screen time also makes mine much much worse, so I would start the day with zero tablet or electronics. Instead of removing them as punishment I'd offer them as reward - "you've dressed yourself really independently, well done, you get a screen bonus" or "thank you for setting the table, that's so helpful, you get a screen bonus" and each bonus is worth 10 minutes tablet. It's then up to him whether he earns 0 minutes a day or an hour a day - and if he's having a bad day then there's the benefit of no screens to make it worse.

NB that doesn't work for everyone. A lot of parents of ND kids say screen time helps theirs regulate. You could do the same 'bonus' measure with pocket money rather than screens if screens regulate your son.

I’ve already said.

Ignore most stuff unless it’s terrible. Reward the good. You need to bring the tension levels down. He’s reacting to that.

Exactly this

Do you have any parenting courses near you to try to support the reality of having ND children?

Your current way of disciplining and trying to parent is only going to make things worse and cause your son higher anxiety and stress which will end up in a vicious circle.

‘A strike is every huge meltdown and if he doesn’t say he’s sorry’😲

He’s melting down because he’s dysregulated. He needs to be calmed down before it gets that far. He can’t help it. Why are you punishing him for normal ND behaviour? He must be very stressed.

I used to cuddle mine in meltdown. I’d never ever have sanctioned it.

Look up pathological demand avoidance, holding boundaries, radical acceptance and low demand parenting.

Are you sure he's getting enough activity? My son is 7.5 and today we had 2 hours at an ASN play session, 2 hours at softplay and an hour long dog walk and that's pretty typical of his activity and sensory needs. He's currently watching a Pokemon movie on a beanbag under a weighted blanket and about to start bedtime.

It's all about meeting sensory needs and learning emotional regulation here, when dysregulated you'd say my son was a cheeky little so and so. Yet when well managed and regulated I constantly get comments on how polite he is because he knows manners, knows please and thank you and loves to do well but when his nervous system is dysregulated he's impulsive and lashes out and you cannot go head to head with him, he will not back down! We've learnt that over years of getting to know what works for him and traditional parenting leads to a horribly upset and badly behaved child who can't focus for more than 2 mins, targeted sensory needs low demand parenting gives us a kid doing well in school who has friends and is largely a delight.

Agree, if we parented like op my son wouldn't cope at all and life would be miserable

Yep, totally agree, we have sensory spaces, tactical screen use, cuddly toys, special interest items, regulating physical activity and techniques etc. And we can mostly avoid meltdowns but if have them he's so distressed the idea of punishing him when he's suffering seems like madness. And the guilt it causes if we're peeved by any of it escalates him already because he hates anyone being cross at him. The surface behaviour really doesn't reflect how much they care

Join the Facebook group Gentle parenting for autistic/ADHD/PDA children UK and beyond and ask on there for help with techniques which will work. Sorry to say but you are doing it totally wrong. But you can turn it around.

Or maybe sometimes he's just acting like a spoilt brat and having a tantrum. Asd kids can choose to be badly behaved at times, not everything is connected to their autism.

But they don't cease to be ND when misbehaving so it does still need to be handled differently. So my son we need to calm him then address issues when calm and address them by troubleshooting ideas for how to better deal with whatever the problem was. Why do you so badly want to label a child a spoilt brat? For reactions and behaviour that are typical of their disability when under stress?

There’s a great website called Autism Central which has been produced by NHS England in conjunction with the National Autistic Society and other charities. It has great webinars about parenting autistic children.