To no longer give a stuff about the third world

[Flashman]

We face an Avalanche of info about the third world that we should give them x amount each month - but now I find myself not being able to give a stuff. I know that one death is tragic but 100,000 is just a number. It seems to me that any money sent does not go to the right place anyway, and just encourages a dependency. I am sure that I read the only thing keeping Robert Mugabe with any foreign reserves is the fact that people living outside Zim send money in.

it means the death of a family member

it means grief and loss and shattered lives

in many cases the end of a household income and therefore a roof over peoples' heads

means women forced into prostitution to feed their children

But I think while we do give there is no incentive for the country to chance - would it not be better to try some tough love?? Seems like since Live aid, in 1984 I think - what has changed - what help have we really given?

well I am male - and what is clumsy? it is a point, if you disagree why not say why you disagree.

Ruby yes I can see tht on a one on one level that is the case - but I am talking about the whole collective - at that point it is much harder to care.

so multiply that one case by 100,000 or 100,000,000 and feel the horror and uncertainty that so many people live with

why is that so much harder to care about?

Because this has been going on for years now - nothing is different - it is the same old same old - technolgy has moved on but still nothing changes - I really think it so sad. I can't see how we in the west just throwing money or aid to these countires improves anything

Yes, unfortunately there is a lot of corruption in third world countries. There are many worthwhile charities though.

It is a shame you don't give a stuff.

It is lucky really that you were born in Britian, other people were not as lucky, it could have easily been you in their place.

Why not complain about all the money being spent on war and armament by rich countries? Then maybe you wouldn't have to help the third world countries with your cash so much.

well be thankful through a geographical quirk you are living here then!

plenty of NGOs and charities are doing incredible work and changing lives

educate yourself about these organisations

well I already acknowledged that I has greatful that my Ancestor got here. And I am sorry I do think countries need to be armed in a perfect world they would not need to spend the money, but it is not a perfect world.

Sorry I don't think these Ngo's are changing much - oh course there are some individual stories - the one life I mentioned, but in a wide scale - the world is the same as it always was with ref to third world - and that is very sad.

I agree that the poverty in many of these countries is caused by corrupt governments.
But that is not the fault of the populations of these countries.

the charities that offer the help that these governments don't need as much help as they can get.

be angry with t he lack of real help the western governments offer these countries by all means, but dont withdraw your support from the people who are actually making a difference

OK, on the same logic then there should be no NHS, no benefits, no social care for the elderly.
After all, in 1984 we had lots of people in need of all those services; we still do now; therefore they're 'not working' - try some 'tough love'.
Honestly, have some COMPASSION
Development, change, crawling out of grinding poverty, dealing with the inequality and unfairness that keeps some rich and some poor is DIFFICULT and takes time. If if was easy then there wouldn't be any poverty. Or unfairness in the world.

I don't think western govt should help per sa or not with money - they ( west) need to open their markets - and ulmitaley unless that is done nothing will make a difference

Yes but the NHS does make a difference - you only have to see the ages that people are living to see that. In fact if anything conditions in the third world are worse than ever so clearly the current aid package is not working.

So you could therefore support investment in health in the 3rd world? There are many many worthwhile schemes which do work very effectively. It is impossible to generalise, and it really isn't same old, same old - not for each and every individual who is living in apalling conditions. Every one of us can do something to help. If you are concerned about their markets, then buying fairtrade produce is one way to do something positive, and there are many examples like that. Personally I think we need to combine both approaches to really make a difference. Poverty is hard to eliminate but it isn't hard to care.

"I am sure that I read the only thing keeping Robert Mugabe with any foreign reserves is the fact that people living outside Zim send money in."

what utter tripe - foreign reserves are extremely depleted in Zim.

True there is a LOT of money being sent it - but the vast majority of it is people outside the country sending money via the blackmarket to private accounts of family members to enable them to buy the absolute basics (when they're actually availabe in the shops)

and how the f*ck can you not give a stuff about the third world when there are countries (such as Zim) where the average man can expect to live until the age of 37, and a women 34.....leaving thousands of orphans every year

Do you really not give a stuff, or have you given up thinking that you can do anything to help? There's a difference, and you sound like you do give a stuff but have reached "what's the point?" stage.

If you find charitable giving so repellent Flashman do you buy fairtrade or do you see that as a nonsense as well? Giving can be good for it's own sake - my sis was hard-up single parent with baby but realised that she was globally rich when she got a WaterAid envelope thru' the door. Despite horrific bills she managed to put something in it. Do not mean this in a preachy way - more in an 'O level' Economics way - maybe you need to think about giving in a different way altogether. What satisfaction does it give you and how do the organisations that you give to operate. Personally never give to NSPCC because in past have done and then been on end of aggressive unpleasant marketing.

I think the debate about western aid is an interesting one and isn't really a case of "you don't care and I do". Western aid can be extremely productive or extremely damaging. It's been described as "poor people in rich countries giving money to rich people in poor countries". If you've seen the UN in operation you've seen money burned.

Look at the amount of money poured into Aceh after the tsunami, and people are still living in poorly built wooden shacks.

It's interesting to look at both sides. I think Bridie said small well-managed local projects are the ones to support and I agree with her (sorry if it was someone else).

You are utterly revolting. I really am sorry that you exist and share the same airspace and that someone went to all the trouble of bringing you up.

Flashman's made a good point -- until markets are opened up there won't be a huge change.

There's a bit of knee jerk holier than thouism going on here.
But not surprising given the way you wrote the OP.

oh come on SL - he couldn't even get his sodding facts right with the country he mentioned in particular in his OP!

It doesn't matter FAQ ..there is still a debate to be had (possibly not here)..it's a very good point about trade, and the frustration about western aid not seeming to help.. I think it's worth a second thought.

Plus I hate to see all against one..

No thread on MN has ever made me as angry and disgusted as this one. You really ought to be deeply ashamed of yourself, although I daresay you are not. How cowardly you are to post something so hateful here where you are annonymous.

100,000 deaths. 100,000 people, who got up in the morning, have parents and children and brothers and sisters. 100,000 people who had plans for next week, plans for their tea that night, plans for their children's futures. Imagine half the population of the city you live in being killed. Picture the scene in your street, all the buildings destroyed, hungry people, orphaned children.

I see you have an issue with corrupt governments not passing on aid money. Fair enough. But will you punish starving innocents because of their governments?

You attitude is dispicable.