Should I move my child or are all state primary schools like this?

[Wednesdayschild87]

Thats it really. My 7 yr old daughter is at a single entry school in a leafy area of a small city. The school has had a lots of changes in the three years since she started. The head teacher left and it took over a year to find his replacement, lots of experienced teachers have gone along with long standing teaching assistants who haven't been replaced. The level of need in the reception intake's since has gone up dramatically but they can't fill a class of 30 each year, which impacts funding. There are 1-1 support but less class TA's.
My daughter used to be really happy but not so much the last couple of years. She's quite bright and more than keeping up with the work but now going into KS2 the school has accepted two more children in her class bringing it up to 32. The two new children are struggling to regulate their behaviour and she often comes home and says she can't hear whats going on because these children shout and scream all the time. I did ask if she could be moved but they moved the one disregulated child who was next to her and swapped them with the other one so I don't think I can ask again! The child has to sit somewhere!
I wondered if it would be best to move her to a bigger school with more pupils which means more funding and just a general better educational experience.
I'm not naive and know that no school is perfect but I wanted to ask, is this what all state education is like now? She's my only child so I don't have any prior experience of other schools. I don't want to cause her potential upheaval if all primary schools are like this. No TA's, the bare minimum staff, only employing newly qualified teachers and lots of SEND children with their needs not being met and impacting everyone else?

Yep, pretty standard stuff. It's often total chaos

I don't think all state schools are like that, my children's isn't. It might be worth looking around the alternatives.

Of course you can ask again if her education is being disrupted - your responsibility is to your child

My DDs school isn’t like that. Not saying it’s amazing - she is in a class of 26 with 2 staff members, but definitely not chaotic or too noisy to hear

No.
our school is typically oversubscribed (it does mean that class sizes are 31 which brings its own issues). Those children needing additional support get 1:1, I would say that there is still quite a bit of disruption though and my elder daughter is frequently paired with a more disruptive member of the class because ‘she is mature enough to get on with her work anyway’. I’m not wild about this but also appreciate that everyone needs schooling and the teachers are balancing a lot.
In addition to support for 1:1, every class has a class TA (not necessarily full time).
some experienced teachers leave, but over half the teaching staff have been in place for the whole 7 years we’ve been involved in the school.

It’s so hard in schools atm. You can sometimes end up with a year group where there are more needs than in others. Schools are doing their best to meet needs with very few resources and support.

I am a governor at the school where my kids went, they are long gone from there. The school itself has a very settled staff for the first time in ages. Money is a challenge as undersubscribed (but every school in the area, even those that are usually massively over, are not full in reception, thank you Covid.) but it’s the worst I’ve ever seen it. Not their fault for lots of reasons. So many schools in our area are being forced to take pupils that need specialist help but can’t be found a place in a specialist school.

School was Ofsteded last week before Christmas. We stayed on Good but the feedback from the inspector was incredible, especially as they had something of a reputation for being very exacting and has accounted for a couple of headteachers. Sadly, the report is much more neutral in Ofsted speak. It was and still is the lovely school I walked into 15 years ago but the results are pretty decent and more consistent than it has been so it’s beginning slowly to gain attention (it’s kind of tucked away and people don’t always know there’s a school there for some reason).

So no, not every school is like that. Staff retention is a problem, yes, but it’s not affecting every school. Remember that going to a less undersubscribed school means places might not be available, and there is no guarantee that a school that looks good on paper now won’t change over the next 4 years. However, if you think DD is really unhappy, it’s probably better to move her at a younger age.

We looked round alot of state schools and this was our experience of our local offerings. Total chaos. TA's caught up with 1 or 2 children with extra needs. Uncontrolled classes, teachers clearly struggling. The schools more caring about attendance and uniform than the actual children's needs.

After considering our options we had two choices home education or independent. We chose independent and nearly a month in it's a decision I don't so far regret. A class size of 15. A teacher and a TA. Children engaged and willing to learn. Happy children, happy staff. Our child is genuinely happy to go in every day and comes out equally happy.

Its not an option for everyone. But i'd personally be exploring all my options home education included.

DD's school has some of those issues but not all.

It's a small, one-form entry. She is in year 2 and has 21 children in her class. It's one of the smaller classes but generally they're low to mid-20's.

Year R and Year 1 have a class TA. Otherwise they are 1-1's or floating.

There is some disruption from some children who struggle (one child in her class is diagnosed ADHD, one with Autism and at least 1 other who will likely get a diagnosis soon) but it's dealt with well from what I can tell. There's a range of abilities from absolutely flying to "can barely hold a pen" but they seem to support all of them.

We've had two new teachers this year - one to replace a member of staff who left at Easter and one to cover a maternity leave. Otherwise they have a very low staff turnover, with several staff there 10+ years.

There's going to be some disruptive children everywhere. Government policy leans to including as many SEND children in mainstream as possible, but without adequate funding for staff to support them fully. Schools predominantly do the best they can with what they've got.

The levels of staff turnover at your school would concern me a little though. With regards to the new children, they're only 2 weeks into term so the school and class teacher will still be working out the best way to support their needs within the class. I'd give them more time before jumping to removing your DD. That doesn't mean that you have to just ignore it though. You're well within your rights to have another chat with her teacher if she's struggling.

My children’s primary school was a 2 form entry and wasn’t like this at all, they were both really happy there and my son is autistic and had his needs met well. It might be worth having a look at a few other local primary schools/ seeing if they have any space

I have posted on numerous posts about issues in our state schools… The real issues are funding and teacher workload. Children who have SEND DO NOT get proper funding from LA’s - funding is tiered. The hoops that schools and families have to jump through to get minimal funding is insane. I want to scream every time I hear some government minister spout nonsense about funding. ALL children in state schools are suffering because of systemic underfunding of our state schools. Expectations of what should be achieved is completely unrealistic - hence why so many experienced school leaders and teachers are leaving the profession. It will only get worse if the status quo is left unchanged. Ask any state school teacher you know this simple question - How much money have you spent on your class/classroom this year? Our state schools are operating on goodwill and eventually it will come crashing down.

No

some are.
more are as there is less funding and children with high needs are now in mainstream.

some are not.
move her.

Not in either of my kids' classes but I know the teachers have described DD's year group as "less challening" so possibly luck of the draw

DS school - the teacher is an older, very experienced teacher who is firm/fair and the class is quiet.

However I should note both are in classes of less than 25 which I think does make a big difference

Working in a school this seems pretty standard. Our class sizes are up to 33 where possible to make up for years where there is a low birth rate and smaller classes.
We also have very few general TAs and those who are, often spend time with children with sen needs but don't get a 1:1. There are more TAs linked to 1:1 children.
It might be over time that the dysregulated children do get a TA, either some or all of the time if they get an EHCP in place but this takes time.
Our school has also been mentioned as being good for sen and generally takes children other schools seem to refuse, therefore we have a lot of children move to our school - as these children don't have EHCPs in place there is no additional funding for them and this means resources are stretched as often it is just the teacher with them with occasional brain breaks.
It is a sad situation for everyone as I don't think anyone's needs are being met under the current education system and everyone is just trying to do the best they can with limited funds.

Yes pretty much and it’s going to get worse due to Labour's one size fits all approach and their indoctrination. Max out your mortgage and go private, it’ll be the best decision you’ll ever make for your children.

It really scares me that there's no consideration given to the need to educate the majority as a priority if there's going to be a functional society and economy in twenty years. It won't benefit the people who need additional support in the long run if there's nothing for them when they hit adulthood.

Thats what makes me feel so sad. That my daugher is bright, really keen to learn, engaged but because the SEND children in the class who havent yet got support, it means they spoil it for everyone else. And its true. Its not fair on them and not fair on the rest of the class.

From my experience teaching sport in my DC's schools it's not the ones with (obvious) SEND being a PITA, it's the NT presenting ones!

Dc school is like this. 2 of the most challenging kids were moved at the end of last year and already the class seems more settled. He is just in a challenging year group unfortunately. One of the boys whose been moved has kicked a teacher in the neck, flushed a kids head down the loo [ I shit you not], trashed classrooms, spat at people and showed their willy. These are 7 years old.

Wow, no not all state schools are like this. My daughter is in Y3, there are 31 in her class, but it’s calm and well organised and the majority of the staff are longstanding and seem motivated. The standard of teaching is high in my opinion, I don’t have direct experience of the SEN provision but some children do have 1-to-1 at the school, plus there are several TAs. Definitely see if there’s another school nearby that would suit you better!

It’s quite common but not all state schools are like this. My kids school is great but there is significant disruption in many of the classes. I have noticed children’s behaviour in general has got worse since my dc1 started school, who is now in year 6. I think if you move your dd you may just get the same elsewhere. Unless there are issues like she is being bullied and you’re not happy with how school are dealing with it or she’s very unhappy I would leave her where she is. I’m biased though because my children don’t cope well with change and struggle when they move up every September particularly dc1. So I wouldn’t move them unless my hand was really forced

I reckon it would be the same in another state school. Can you pay for tutoring or make yourself familiar with KS2 and coach her yourself?

There were six kids with obvious SEN in my son’s school in reception and year 1 and it was chaos. We moved schools a couple of times and ended up putting all of mine in independent schools. The financial cuts to state schools have been devastating and children would previously have had TA support but now classes are lucky to have even one TA.

I work at a school and our SEN intake is running at around 25%. That seems to be fairly standard from what I understand. We are a pretty big school and have a designated area for children that need additional help that is staffed by specialist staff. I think this is the kind of resource you many find with a bigger school so no I don’t think you are BU by wanting to look around at other local schools.

Wait until it gets to mandatory inclusion.

Parents should be up in arms about the Schools Bill yet I guess 99% don't know anything about it.

Schools are in crisis, teachers being made redundant ti balajce budgets. Labour are doing nothing to improve things and in fact are making it worse.