Would you work for free?

[Bastilee]

My firm has recently got rid of the 30 mins free consultation with a solicitor. It’s now a £20 fixed fee for the first 45 mins. Paid in advance because people regularly don’t bother turning up to these appointments.

The amount of abuse we’ve had since introducing a fixed fee it’s unbelievable. Saying we’re taking valuable advice away from people who want to self represent, but would You work for free?

We regularly get 16 requests a week which was an entire days worth of free work per week. You can’t bill this to anything so it literally is Working for free.

I have found if you work for free, people don’t value it - ie your example of people not showing up.

I suppose in your example, the reason you do it is as a loss leader, to get people in the door (who will then go on to use your services).

If it’s no longer working for you, then no obligation to do it of course.

From a firm’s perspective the free legal advice is a bad, bad thing. You still need a file, all checks etc.

But from the other point of view, any sort of justice beyond criminal representation and very limited instances of legal aid is becoming impossible to access for the average person. That is also an issue.

£20 is not awful, but also for some people it is a lot of money. Those people need access to justice more than anyone else.

I think your title needs a bit more context.
Some women have CV's with large gaps in and can't find a job in the current filtering of AI as a result. So yes, with that in mind I would work for free, for a month or two, to show I have a brain and can still type, answer a phone etc. It seems to be assumed by AI that someone fresh out of school or college has better skills and I can't find a way back in without a recent job.

I do get your point that people can be selfish prats when they feel they are "owed" something freely and don't understand skill and generosity don't pay the bills.

I work in the charity sector and when you offer a service for free, there will always be a section of service users who think that means it has no value sadly.

Presumably they're free to go to any number of other solicitors who aren't charging?

I guess I just don’t understand the vitriol. Half the people who call for 30 mins free advice never call back again, the others are entitled to free legal counsel because we’re a legal aid firm. If they pay £20 and they have a case/ we open legal aid for them they get a refund on the day of the appointment so they aren’t out of pocket, but I’ve just been screamed at and told that when her kids are homeless at Christmas it’ll be my fault and she’ll come and set fire to the office 🙃

I’ll be honest I kind of thought it must be a legal requirement for solicitors to provide 30 mins free etc because why would anyone do it otherwise? I’ll admit I’ve taken advantage of this service twice, once I then employed the solicitors services because it involved family court. But the 2nd time the solicitor was very honest and concise and told me I didn’t need her help (it was just a form I needed to fill out basically and submit to the courts)

I was very grateful both times and I would never have cancelled because that’s rude. What I would say is that I wouldn’t like to work for free, however that 2nd lady I spoke to, I was at my lowest ebb and she (unknowingly) stopped me feeling hopeless and suicidal if I’m honest with her advice so if you are a good person and can afford to carry on giving free advice you might just be changing lives and knowing that you have the power and knowledge to do that may outweigh the ungrateful idiots that don’t show up.

Could you offer 15 mins free? Rather than 30? It does seem like a long time to give up and most people can explain a situation quicker than that surely?

The firm offers a solicitor to work out if the possible client has a case or not.

The solicitor (I assume) is not working for free but rather touting for business using a loss leader process.

The firm never intended to help self-rep non clients so I dont see the problem with the £20 fee

OP I can empathise with this so much. I used to work at a law centre and honestly the clients were miles away from private practice, 95 percent of them were brilliant but a good 5 percent were complete nightmares purely because we were free. I now work in a legal aid firm and most of my clients are legally aided but they seem to value my service so much more.

It's often touted on MN but the free 30 mins can often be of no use to a litigant in person who not only needs to know if they have a case but would have no clue how to go about actually running their case. Barely scratches the surface and can often be a waste of everyone's time if they're not going to instruct proper representation.

Report threats to your HOD and the police. That is unacceptable behaviour

It doesn't seem unreasonable to charge.

I did very much appreciate the family lawyer who came to our house and gave my mum free advice for an hour. There was zero pressure from him. We didn’t end up proceeding with the case but when we needed a lawyer 2 years later, we engaged his services.

The other time I needed a (different) lawyer, the lawyers did the job but I realised in the process that I had paid the lawyers thousands of pounds to do something I could have done myself. In fact, I did most of the form filling 🙄

I think you have found a reasonable compromise with your first 45minutes for £20 than can be refunded if Legal aid case.

It is simply that if people have become used to having something for free that when it is no longer available they perceive it as having been taken from them - so they view you as having stolen something from them.

It's human psychology. It was very visible with things like the Winter fuel payment and other benefits - once you have given something, it is very difficult to take it back.(or not to continue to give it)

The issue is though that the legal system is becoming increasingly out of reach for many people. There is a lady on here who faces severe UC sanctions because she can’t afford to access the legal system. That is not okay.

Just imagine how she would’ve reacted if you’d taken the case and she turned out to be wrong as most of them are and that’s the outcome she ends up with anyway.

My only experience of the free 30 minutes was when a friend tried to use them to get advice about leaving her abusive husband. She said that most of the time was taken up with her answering questions and being told of different options available to her and she didn’t come away with any actual advice that could help her.

It seems fair enough to give free time to get information from a potential client and not pork out what you can offer them, and it’s fair not to give out free advice. The problem imo is the way these free minutes have been marketed, as if they’re of any real use to people.

The thing about how people don’t attach value to services offered for free is a part of the problem for the NHS - missed appointments etc, and a general sense that it’s taken for granted.

@DontReinMeIn The lady in that case has an issue with her former partner and I don't think would struggle to provide £20 for advice.

Legal advice is beyond most people - especially young people working in jobs who exploit them, but no one is offering them help.

I don’t want to fully discuss another thread but the help she needs is far beyond £20 of advice.

I agree re young people. I’ve left the legal profession recently because I found the entire thing disgusting. Charging through the nose for things you can do yourself is unfathomable to me.

No, but then again my professional services do not and cannot command the £££ per hour that a solicitor's can. If I earned solicitor money I might feel more relaxed about doing the odd 30 minutes for nothing, especially if it might lead to a paid project down the line.

I agree that when people don't have to pay for something they don't value it.
So getting them to pay in advance will ( hopefully) ensure they turn up and cut down on the time wasters
' a leaf blew into my face can I sue the council ' type fools.
£20 is manageable by the majority of people, particularly as the on going cost are going to be quite high , ie if you are going to take the council to court its going to cost you ££££s
I know a lot of people use the free advice to see if it's worth going to court/ see what their rights are / check a point of law but imo that's well worth £20 , the alternative could be no free 30 mins and have to pay a retainer before you even speak to a solicitor/ lawyer.

@Bastilee , would your employer be willing to deduct £20 from the first 'proper ' consultation so the client gets their money back? People also like to think they are getting a bargain,

" Twenty Pounds Off First Full Consultation "
isnt a bad tag line for advert .

Or could some / all of the £20 be donated to a charity that is in line with the main type of cases the company deals with ,
ie personal injury > rehabilitation center,
DV > women's/ man's aid
Clinical malpractice > cancer care
and so on.
Again it's not a bad tag line for a advert.

During the pandemic I applied for a job in the NHS. The agency didn't bother to reply, but a few weeks later they approached me to ask if I'd do a similar job for the NHS, for free.

I declined.

I think they should all abolish the free 30 minutes. People just take the puss.

I see the free 1/2 hr with a solicitor as a bit like quoting for work (as other professions would also), you're meeting up to tender for the job then, assuming you get taken on for say 1/4 of those jobs, you make up the ££ on the paid work. It may be that you only get take on for 1/20 of those jobs (let's say) which makes the cost profile of the free work slightly different.

Having said all that, I think it's very much fair to offer a 45 min consultation for £20. I assume that's still basically loss making for the solicitors firm. If I was looking around for a solicitor, I'd be happy to pay £20 a few times over to get the right fit (and I'm fairly low income).

I used to work for a therapy provider who offered 30 mins free consultation. About 60% of appointments were no shows.

I do hate it when people talk about “free 30 mins with a solicitor” as if that is some kind of entitlement. And that people think in that free slot you’re going to get highly personalised, specialist advice on the exact course of actions. So I think perfectly fair to charge and the abuse you’re getting is unacceptable.

I’m not sure how the firm is dealing with client onboarding etc - if I pay £20 for 45 mins with you (which is still very cheap) am I your client, can I rely on your advice, what if I follow the advice on it and it blows up in my face? Or is the 45 mins to fact gather and discuss options only? Hopefully you that has been worked through as otherwise I fear that could create a separate raft of options.

Agree with Mauvhoodie: the free half hour with a solicitor should essentially be like asking a builder to come and tell you whether the idea you have for your front porch is feasible and give you a quote, or a joiner to come and look at your kitchen, tell you what you need, and quote. You’re explaining your problem, they tell you what the options are and if they can help, and what it will cost.

From speaking to solicitor friends, the problem is too many people have come to see it as not that but as some kind of enshrined entitlement to get free legal advice, and often become angry when their complicated legal issue can’t be solved free of charge in half an hour. I don’t think a £20 charge for an initial session is unreasonable, particularly not if it’s deducted from any bill if they engage you.