Mother charged with neglect

[Knackeredboot]

This article has been posted on Facebook and has attracted a lot of angry comments about it from people saying the mother should be steriliser and that she's evil.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c864g0evz9jo

The crime was neglect of a baby that resulted in its death from a mother that had failed to notice that her baby hadn't woken in the night for her usual feeds due to the mothers level of intoxication.

There's no indication that the baby would usually have to be woken for feeds, just that it was the babys usual routine.

The mother was awake but drunk. But had she been asleep then would that have been considered neglect too? She checked on the baby from a distance but did not try to stir. Again, I wouldn't go into my 5mo's room regularly in the night for a close up check on them as I would be asleep also.

It says that the level of intoxication was 2.5times the driving limit which is irrelevant as she wasnt driving.

Am i missing something here? I feel like the commenters are being incredibly hard on her based on the little detail in the article. Although I'm not a big drinker I know loads of couples that get smashed on the weekend while at home with the kids.

When mine was little she once slept for 13 hours and I was freaking out a bit. i checked that she was still breathing etc, she was just sleeping, I didn’t wake her up for a feed. I doubt any baby dies because they haven’t been fed for a few hours later than normal (feel queasy even writing that). Something else happened. But tbh I can completely see how it happens . You put the baby to bed, you have a few drinks, you are relaxed and it doesn’t seem to be a problem. I didn’t drink for a year after my first was born but she would sleep in a cot just next to the living room (no closed doors) so we could have an evening (cot was positioned so anyone getting up to leave the living room could do a quick check). Mine also slept in a separate bedroom from 3 months and is absolutely fine.

Frankly pp point about the Mccans is bang on imo. They literally left children completely by themselves and faced no child neglect charges. Either there is more to the story or this is just a tragic accident.

I am trying to put myself in your shoes OP where this has become normalised. Just because poor parenting is normalised in your peer group doesn't make it acceptable. It sounds like you have the normal standards around parenting and your friends have labelled you anxious. Don't listen to them.

How do you know
sje wasn’t a middle class, married mum? It doesn’t say she’s single and doesn’t mention her “class”.

I think sadly the baby would have died regardless of the drinking habits of the mother or the sleeping surface since the cause of death was SIDS.

I'm guessing she got drunk, fell asleep and wasn't woken by her baby as she had tragically passed. Saying that she failed to notice the deviation from the early morning feeding routine as though anyone would have if they weren't asleep is unusual.

I may be naive but I also thought that the drink drive limit was extremely low so to be 2.5 times over the limit is meaningless to me outside the context of driving.

Isn't that like two and a half pints? Not that I'm disagreeing it was grievous neglect.

Although if she was drinking vodka I'd imagine she was pretty plastered.

Girl I changed my mind halfway through the thread and said so

Knee jerk reaction to what is actually a terrible case of neglect

So she was irresponsible. Isnt the death of her baby punishment enough without harming the whole family with a punitive charge?

You could say the same about a man who murders his wife in a drunken rage and regrets it afterwards.

It’s just so desperately sad.

That would have been when they tested her presumably after the baby had died, she would have been far more intoxicated throughout the evening.

Of course she should be charged with neglect. She got drunk when she was responsible for

2 children. And the OP who says they wouldn’t go into their 5 months old room in the night! Really! You don’t check on your child even before you go to bed! Maybe you should be charged with neglect too!

I'd also point out it doesn't give an estimated time of death. Every other check from the doorway could have satisfied her because she has seen movement or heard her baby.

Might depend where you are, drink drive limits in England are a lot higher than Scotland. It varys a lot per person, but the key thing is that the mum still had that much in her system the next day even police tested her. Given that very roughly, the body metabolises around 1 unit of alcohol per hour, she would have been extremely drunk during the night for her to still test at that level the next day.

I think having a drink is normalised, but not getting drunk whilst in sole care of a child.

Those talking about Madeleine McCann's parents - it happened in a different country with different laws. It was certainly reported much more sympathetically in the press then it would have been if they were working class parents, but I still recall a fair bit of push back from the public about leaving the children alone.

No I had a baby monitor and tended to the baby when they woke. Looking at them for 2 minutes before I went to bed wouldn't have achieved anything.

You cannot say the baby would have died anyway. The sleeping surface definately matters, and the risk in this situation was hugely increased by the Mother's negligence. Yes some babies do die of SIDS and their caregiver has done everything under the sun to reduce the risk. However, this is not the case

Safer Sleep Environment to reduce risk of SIDS:

Back to Sleep: Always place your baby on their back for every sleep, including naps.

Clear Sleeping Space: Keep the cot, Moses basket, or pram clear of any soft items, such as pillows, duvets, blankets, and toys.

Firm Mattress: Use a firm, flat, and waterproof mattress that is in good condition.

Room Sharing: Have your baby sleep in your room, but not in your bed, for at least the first six months.

Avoid Overheating: Dress your baby in lightweight clothing, and avoid bulky blankets or too many layers to prevent overheating.

Lifestyle Factors
No Smoking:
Avoid smoking during pregnancy and after birth. Keep your baby's environment smoke-free.

Avoid Alcohol and Drugs:
Do not drink alcohol or use drugs during pregnancy or after birth, and avoid having anyone who has consumed them share a bed with the baby.

Breastfeeding:
Breastfeeding, if possible, can reduce the risk of SIDS.

Use a Dummy:
Offering a dummy at naptime and bedtime can also help to reduce the risk of SIDS.

Other Considerations
Tummy Time:
Supervise your baby during "tummy time" to strengthen their muscles and promote healthy development.

Immunisations:
Ensure your baby receives all recommended immunisations, as studies show a link between vaccination and a lower risk of SIDS.

Forgot to also include as well:

Sleeping in the same room as your baby reduces SIDS risk because parents can more easily monitor the baby, provide comfort, and intervene in an emergency. The closer proximity to a parent seems to help the baby regulate their breathing and heart rate, and the ambient sounds of the parent's movement and breathing can help the baby wake more easily from deep sleep, a crucial factor in preventing SIDS.

What’s the equivalence there? They’re clearly not in sole charge of their child if they’re not in the same house.
How could they possibly be charged with neglect?

No you couldn't because this was SIDS and not murder.

I don't think you can know for sure it was hugely increased. Would it be hugely increased for anyone who opts not to use a dummy?

I suppose you have to ask yourself if alcohol hadn’t played a part here would the outcome have been different? Did baby often sleep on the sofa? Would mum have been asleep if not drinking in another room and therefore still unable to actively respond to baby?

It’s a horrible case and no doubt the mum will beat herself up forever with the what ifs. I suppose the bottom line is just don’t drink to excess when you’re in sole care of a young baby. I would have a few when mine were small but never binge drink. And they would always be safely in bed. However if god forbid anything had happened and I’d have had a drink I suppose you’d always ask yourself if that played a part. It’s impossible to say and probably not worth the risk.

Why on earth would you want to excuse such awful cruelty and neglect?

Fair point. I guess I'm saying that the regret of the guilty isn't usually seen as grounds for a full pardon. But it's no doubt a tragic case.

It isn't about doing one of those. It is about doing as many as possible to decrease risk. Not getting off your face in a different room from baby that hasn't been checked on for 14 hours, might be a good start.

She left her on a sofa and didn't even notice that she didn't wake in the morning. I'd say they convicted based on the bigger picture.
It doesn't say a time, but saying that she didn't notice she didn't wake in the morning makes it sound like it was well into the later morning if not afternoon that she eventually woke to check on her or thought to check on her.
May not be the case but I'd assume there was other signs of neglect with the state of the house or similar.
I highly doubt a baby in a cot and found in the morning would get a conviction even if the mum had been drinking vodka.

In that case, what do you think the point of having a legal system is? You could say that of anyone who makes a stupid decision they later regret!

Murdered your child, but feel bad about it? Ah well, you’ve suffered enough.

Abused an animal leading to its death? Well, as long as you feel bad about it, you’ve suffered enough.

At what point does justice for this poor child enter into the equation and send a message to other parents that their crappy decisions will be looked on in an equally unfavourable light?