To wonder why secondary schools start so early when teens are notoriously bad in the mornings?

[RaisinFlapjack]

As the title says - why is it the secondary schools often start their day so early when teens’ brains are not wired to be up early?

DCs school starts at 8:15 - it seems far too early, especially when many kids have to travel to get there. It’s earlier than primary school and earlier than most adults start work. Then they’re done for the day by3pm. Why not shift it back to a more civilised start time?

8:15 is quite early. The one I work at is 8:30-4. I certainly wouldn’t want to be there much beyond then.

The kids are much better behaved in the morning, maybe they’re all just half asleep still. Many can’t stay awake in the afternoon so not sure shifting the day would result in more productive children.

Schools start early to finish before it gets dark, or at least so that pupils have a reasonable change of going home in daylight in winter. And given the proportion of parents who cannot drive acceptably in daylight, would you want some of them driving in the dark?

If we had BST year round that would change no doubt.

A school near me tried that a few years back, started at ten. It closed down due to falling numbers. A lot of kids still get lifts to school, wouldn't get themselves in if there was noone at home if parents have gone to work. a standard working day in the UK is 8/9 am til 4/5/6. I do agree they should finish later, especially y10 upwards but not sure a later start would accomplish much.

Be thankful you don't live in the US, where many schools start before 8.

That’s a usually early time. Is it a state school?

I think that's a generalisation... My whole life I've bounded out of bed before 6 AM - my school started at 07:30 (hot country). My DC also was happy to get up early during high school (less so nowadays at uni).

My DC's school finished by 3pm so that there was time for sports matches before it gets dark in winter, so obviously need to start school by 08:30 in order to get enough learning time in.

In yr 11 at dd's school they had to be in for 8am 3 days a week for extra revision run by teachers. I felt sorry for the pupils and the teachers! But my dd was a total star and did it each day without complaining. Now she's in 6th form and travelling further she often has to leave the house at 7am to get the 7.30am bus. I think I probably could have done it at that age. I had loads of energy. Couldn't do it now! She just makes sure she gets an early night

As a secondary teacher I can indeed confirm kids are much fresher in the morning, learn better, behave better, and the whole atmosphere is calm.
Lunch time turns them mad. Afternoons are much more difficult and in my experience, they don’t learn well, are easily distracted, and often hyper.

If they finish early, they can have time for independent learning, sports, clubs, extra curricular etc.

My DS starts at 9 which seems better. Anecdotally in the nearest city the secondary schools start earlier. Part of the reason is the school buses mostly do a secondary school run and then flip round and go a primary school run and it works out cheaper for council than if schools started at same time. Big rural catchments though so possibly a disproportionate number of students entitled to school transport in comparison to other places.

Mine started school abroad where the day was 7.30- 1pm (or 1.30pm for Secondary). The teenagers from our village were on the bus at 6.45.

They all liked the free afternoons more than disliking the early start.

Similar start time here too and it's nowhere near the earliest in the area. Our nearest starts before 8 and finishes really early.

No problem me and my class mates getting up in a morning as a teen, but there were no smart phones, I wasn't allowed a TV in my room, no games console, no internet access.

DS17 had a similar routine, no TV in his room or games console, phone left downstairs at bedtime. Never had any problems with him getting up for school and he had to travel to get there. Even further for college now, but he gets up at 6:30, no bother.

Teens are not notoriously bad at getting up, parents are notoriously bad for not ensuring a sleep routine and excusing it with "well they're just a teenager". That's a bit like "boys will be boys".

Is it a state school?

I know, for the kids it probably is too early. Working parents on the other hand...

Yes, mine goes to a state secondary. They're expected to be at school at 8:15 and lessons begin at 8:30. They finish at 3:30 - unless they are doing additional classes/ clubs/ music lessons. They finish early on a Friday though and get longer breaks.

I think it instils good discipline. Mine get up at 6.30 because they do clubs some days before school. If you have a routine life is so much better.

Perhaps because teachers aren’t keen on working from 12-8pm?

I agree it might be more in sync with their brains, but they may have younger siblings with early start times and, as mentioned by previous posters, their parents may need to drop them off (and pick them up) ahead of (or after) inflexible work hours.

Teachers and other school staff may also have other commitments (e.g., taking their own young children to school) that would make it impractical for them to follow a later timetable.

'A civilised start time' it's school the day doesn't revolve around when they can bothered getting out of bed this is just ridiculous 😂😂

My DC start (secondary) at 8.15 and it’s perfect for them. They’re up at 6.30 and leave home by 7.30. We had a few teething issues at the start but soon learned that they have a better day when they’re up, showered and have a non-rushed morning. They finish at 3 and 3 out of 5 days do extra curricular activities that end at 4.15/4.30. We then do two clubs a week 6-8.

If they started later then where would the time be for them to do the extras? One of our non-negotiables in a decent bed time with no tech for the last hour so they’ve usually had a decent sleep which means they’re ok in the morning.

It’s widely known that your circadian rhythm shifts later as a teen.

Our local one starts at 8! I am dreading it, I am not a morning person either. And then they finish at 2:45, just seems ridiculously early. 9-3:45 would be so much better.

Certainly round here the primary schools start later than secondary. Primary schools typically have a smaller catchment so shorter school jouneys. DS was leaving home an hour later when he was in primary compared to secondary thanks to a combination of a longer journey and earlier start.

The argument about fitting in around parents working patterns also seems more relevant to primary school as children are more likely to be travelling independently at secondary. I have seen secondary age DS out of the door at 7:30 but am not finished with the primary school run until 9am.

I’m not suggesting that start times should be substantially later it just seems odd that it’s teenagers are typically starting earlier than younger children (who tend to wake earlier) and earlier than they’re likely to start work when they are an adult. 9-9:30 would seem better and still allow time for after school activities.

So that parents can make sure they are up and on their way to school before going to work themselves.

My DCs were in school in the US and always started at 8, ending at 3, from 1st grade on.

My own school days in Ireland were 9-3 for primary and 9-4 for secondary. The 9 o'clock start in secondary just meant I thought I could stay up longer.