Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Pension credit only £3 less than State Pension

604 replies

SpanishBaguette · 16/09/2025 13:16

Maybe it's been obvious to others but I've only just found out that Pension Credit will top you up to no less than £227 per week which is only £3 less than the state pension.

AIBU to be hacked off that I need to pay 35 years of contributions to end up with a near identical pension to someone who gets it for free. WTF?

OP posts:
MaurineWayBack · 18/09/2025 17:34

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 17:09

They should get enough for basics - the governments deems that to be around £400 a month.

It’s not.
What the government thinks is enough for basic is about £800.
What the state pension is.
What disabled people on UC get too.
Whether this is enough to live in is another discussion altogether

ilovesooty · 18/09/2025 17:37

ShyMaryEllen · 18/09/2025 14:17

Ok, so what would you do about it?

The options, unless I've missed something, are:

  • Cancel the SP and let pensioners live on whatever they have saved towards independence in retirement (ie any occupational pension and savings), bearing in mind that they will have factored in the SP that they were led to expect, and that any pretence of a social contract at any age will be destroyed.
  • Reduce the value of the SP by cutting the triple lock, so that year on year an increasing number of pensioners become dependent on benefits to live.
  • Replace SP with means-tested Pension Credit, and thus encourage everyone to do nothing about their older age, as it will be financially catastrophic to do so for anyone unable to save enough to cover what was the SP as well as an occupational pension. Presumably having savings will count against pensioners too, so more of them will be reliant on the state for more things than at present.
  • Phase out the pension part of NI and gradually cut the SP for new entrants to the scheme, so that on retirement those who have paid in half the required number of years on retirement get 50% pension and so on on a sliding scale, the rest to be covered by individual arrangements.
  • Stop covering NI contributions for the unemployed, the sick, SAHPs and others who currently qualify, and make the SP entirely contributions-based. Decide whether such people should be allowed to make use of any of the other services covered by NI, or whether pensions should be singled out as only available to those with full contributions.
  • Scrap the idea of retirement altogether, so that anyone without a large enough occupational pension works until they die.
  • Any other ideas?

I think I would simply tie pension increases to average wage growth, then pensioners would be treated the same as working people. Obviously no one should want a situation where pensioners don't have dignity in retirement. I would set up a cross party committee to look at welfare models and expenditure overall.

ShyMaryEllen · 18/09/2025 17:48

I think I would simply tie pension increases to average wage growth, then pensioners would be treated the same as working people. Obviously no one should want a situation where pensioners don't have dignity in retirement. I would set up a cross party committee to look at welfare models and expenditure overall.

That seems fair. The triple lock was necessary to bring pensions to a humane level, but when they reach minimum wage, I agree that they should be pegged at that.

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 17:52

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 17:29

That is the amount for jobseekers and is low to encourage people to take any job to get back into work. It is also intended to be temporary. People unable to work are on double that as it is a wage replacement payment.

So it would encourage people to work and make sure they earn a state pension and can have £230 a week to live on rather than £100

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 17:56

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 17:52

So it would encourage people to work and make sure they earn a state pension and can have £230 a week to live on rather than £100

Not when many jobs on offer are min wage and zero hour contract. Or places offering min wage jobs on a self employed basis. Seen a few places do that.

Why would people unable to work now be on half what they were paid once they get to retirement age?

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 18:11

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 17:56

Not when many jobs on offer are min wage and zero hour contract. Or places offering min wage jobs on a self employed basis. Seen a few places do that.

Why would people unable to work now be on half what they were paid once they get to retirement age?

Edited

They wouldn't - those to ill/disabled get NI credits so are still earning their state pension

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 18:18

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 18:11

They wouldn't - those to ill/disabled get NI credits so are still earning their state pension

But you said that the state pension should be £400. Which means that someone too disabled to work would find their income halved once they get to retirement age.

Harriet9955 · 18/09/2025 18:32

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 16:58

Then they stay on UC.
Why do they deserve more than double a working age person?

People who are state pension age cannot claim UC unless they have a partner who is under state pension age.

Dutchhouse14 · 18/09/2025 18:42

I do understand what you mean OP, I left school at and by the time I reach state pension age I will have been working and contributing for 51years.
I have a small private pension from an employer I worked for before DC, it really hasn't kept up with inflation and value seems eroded.
Then after DC I was self employed and paid self employed stamp but couldn't afford to contribute to private pension due to cost of living, raising DC etc
Then I went back to work for an employer but worked part time hours on a fairly low salary, I've had promotions and increased my hours since but my private pension isn't great and no chance if retiring any earlier than state retirement age.

Obviously I don't want anyone not to be able to afford to live and as a society we need to support the most vulnerable but it is hard to work hard and end up not in a better situation to those who haven't worked.

Livingincanadaafter19yearsinlondon · 18/09/2025 18:54

ShyMaryEllen · 18/09/2025 17:25

@Livingincanadaafter19yearsinlondon, I'm not sure which parts of your post are addressed to me, but I assume some is as you quoted my post.

FWIW, what I would like to see is a fairer distribution so that pensioners who have worked get a decent standard of living, but I would restrict universal pensions to those who either paid in the right number of years or had good reason for not doing so. Those reasons would include things like illness, disability or caring responsibilities (for a disabled person or someone otherwise unable to care for themselves, not decades of looking after your own children and house).

Anyone with no income at retirement age should get a household means-tested pension, so someone who has been 'supported' by a partner or spouse in their working years can continue to do so in retirement, or get UC. A pension should be a reward for years of work, not a prize for reaching retirement age.

I don't think that people who have worked for decades should only have a subsistence standard of living, and I'm bored with the venom that is spat at older people by posters, bots and sections of the media. Lazy stereotypes about millionaires with houses worth 100 times what they cost ignore little things like class, sex and geographical location, and show no understanding of how life was different (particularly for women) when today's pensioners were young.

It's true that most people don't pay in as much as they get out, but that's because for a lot of people wages are rubbish, and have always been so for large sections of the population. The SP should take that into account, and pay according to the number, not the value of contributions, as those on higher incomes have more to invest in occupational or private pensions, and get higher rates of tax relief when they do so. It's hardly fair to penalise people for having a badly paid job even after they've retired.

At the same time, it makes no sense to penalise those who have paid into other pensions by means-testing their whole income. Pensions are taxed, so they pay in that way, in any case. Someone with an occupational pension who loses a SP will pay a lot less tax than they do now, so the savings won't be as high as face value might suggest, and it would be cruel to upend people's retirement plans yet again. Women have already had between 6 and 10 years added to their pension age, and that impacts on couples as well as on single women. It may be 'fair', but for the people concerned it has massively interfered with their plans for older age, and slashing their incomes by £11k would be unconscionable, as would forcing people onto the sort of accountability that being on means-tested benefits brings.

Wealthier pensioners tend to be those born before the early 50s anyway, as they had access to SERPS in their own right, and could inherit SERPS from their husbands. My mother, who only worked for about 7 years between my brother reaching 13 and her retirement in her early 50s, gets nearly twice the full new SP because of those legacy perks and the home responsibilities payments she got for three children until the youngest was 16. The New SP is single tier, so most people on here will get a flat rate, regardless of what we paid in, and we won't inherit if we are widowed. Gradually, more and more people will be on the single tier pension as the older generations die, which will reduce costs naturally.

Some really interesting points raised here and I appreciate the well thought out reply.

However I did note you said "pensions should be a reward for years of work and not a prize for reaching retirement age".

But also said "it's hardly fair to penalise people for having a barely paid job"

Both things can't actually be true. As the whole arguement is exactly that. Why should you get more in retirement than you earned in life? High earners are often supporting a family, perhaps have a wife at home who is looking after children. A high earner at 100k is, effectively paying 4 times the NI of someone on 25k. So why on earth shouldn't his wife, who's given up work and is indirectly contributing to the economy, not get the same pension as someone who made 25k a year. Some might even argue she should get double as that's the net family contribution.

The redistribution of wealth always relies on higher earners. 10% of the population actually pay 60% of the income taxes. 50% pay another 9%. And it's generally the bottom 25% who say the person poorer than them should get even less.

It makes me both sad and angry and frustrated.

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:17

Harriet9955 · 18/09/2025 18:32

People who are state pension age cannot claim UC unless they have a partner who is under state pension age.

But they should have to - then they'd get £400 a month instead of £900 +
Much more affordable

R0ckandHardPlace · 18/09/2025 19:19

Teribus21 · 18/09/2025 09:32

Just want to politely point out that only 40 % of the UK workforce work in large companies defined as 250 employees or more. The remainder work in small and medium enterprises (SMEs) or are among the roughly 10% that are self employed. Until 2018, when it became compulsory for all businesses of whatever size to provide a pension scheme, many SMEs didn’t. (This was phased in by company size starting in 2012). Please don’t assume that everyone who was in the workforce prior to 2012 has a company pension. They don’t. This is largely ignored by the MSM, BBC etc. who presumably all have nice company pensions.

You are absolutely correct. Throughout my working life I had never been offered a pension until 2011, over twenty years after I entered the workforce.

In fact when I started work, most part time or low skilled jobs would still pay your wages at the end of the week in cash, in a brown envelope with the deductions written on. I doubt whether those deductions ever reached the taxman.

I didn’t start having my wages paid into the bank, or receive an payslip until the late 90s.

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 19:19

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:17

But they should have to - then they'd get £400 a month instead of £900 +
Much more affordable

£400 is nothing. You cant live on that. It will cover bills and basic food. Not toiletries clothing or needing things like a microwave or bedding. No public transport. No social life or hobbies. Very grim.

Allthings · 18/09/2025 19:21

R0ckandHardPlace · 18/09/2025 19:19

You are absolutely correct. Throughout my working life I had never been offered a pension until 2011, over twenty years after I entered the workforce.

In fact when I started work, most part time or low skilled jobs would still pay your wages at the end of the week in cash, in a brown envelope with the deductions written on. I doubt whether those deductions ever reached the taxman.

I didn’t start having my wages paid into the bank, or receive an payslip until the late 90s.

What you describe was quite normal of the era and I don’t think a lot of people have much of a clue as to how things were (despite being told).

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:27

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 19:19

£400 is nothing. You cant live on that. It will cover bills and basic food. Not toiletries clothing or needing things like a microwave or bedding. No public transport. No social life or hobbies. Very grim.

If you've been able to work and haven't and therefore haven't provided for your own retirement why should life be anything other than grim.

Kirbert2 · 18/09/2025 19:28

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:27

If you've been able to work and haven't and therefore haven't provided for your own retirement why should life be anything other than grim.

Because we surely don't want to live in a society where we are letting the elderly starve on the street?

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:31

Kirbert2 · 18/09/2025 19:28

Because we surely don't want to live in a society where we are letting the elderly starve on the street?

Those on UC don't starve on the street - why would pensioners.
We can't keep providing for those who don't pay in - eand especially not at the expense of those who did.

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 19:32

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:27

If you've been able to work and haven't and therefore haven't provided for your own retirement why should life be anything other than grim.

Why are you assuming it would be people who are able to work? You can work and be on a crap wage that does not afford you to provide for your retirement. Zero hour stuff and being self employed but on a low pay.

The welfare state is there to look after people who cant look after themselves. Benefits are not a reward for working hard.

Kirbert2 · 18/09/2025 19:34

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:31

Those on UC don't starve on the street - why would pensioners.
We can't keep providing for those who don't pay in - eand especially not at the expense of those who did.

Some can't pay in for whatever reason. Why should they be punished when it's not their fault?

ShyMaryEllen · 18/09/2025 19:35

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 17:52

So it would encourage people to work and make sure they earn a state pension and can have £230 a week to live on rather than £100

I don't think the quotes above are relevant to mine, and I can't work out how to delete them - sorry. I am replying to the bit in bold below.

Both things can't actually be true. As the whole arguement is exactly that. Why should you get more in retirement than you earned in life? High earners are often supporting a family, perhaps have a wife at home who is looking after children. A high earner at 100k is, effectively paying 4 times the NI of someone on 25k. So why on earth shouldn't his wife, who's given up work and is indirectly contributing to the economy, not get the same pension as someone who made 25k a year. Some might even argue she should get double as that's the net family contribution.

Because the high earner is paying his own tax, as required by HMRC based on his earnings, not his wife's. How is she indirectly contributing to the economy if she's paying nothing in and spending someone else's money, so not even paying VAT herself? We don't have 'family contributions' to tax, we are taxed as individuals. Yes, the husband is paying more tax than someone on £25k, but that's as it should be, and he's also getting much more tax relief on his occupational or personal pension, can probably afford to save a lot more into ISAs and so on (so not pay tax on even more of his income). To add to that by giving his wife a pension at even half the rate of someone who is working as a carer, or on a production line doesn't make sense to me.

When I said people on low pay shouldn't be financially penalised into in older age, I meant that if we all pay a percentage of our income to the state system and all get the same out (if we've paid in for the full number of years) then those earning more subsidise those who earn less. That's what happens in a welfare state, and that seems fair to me. Higher earners can pay into other pension schemes to get higher pensions when the time comes, which I also see as fair, and is one of the reasons why I don't approve of means-testing.

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 19:36

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:31

Those on UC don't starve on the street - why would pensioners.
We can't keep providing for those who don't pay in - eand especially not at the expense of those who did.

They get into huge debt and use foodbanks. You dont see them starving on the streets because they are starving at home instead. Out of sight, out of mind.

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:43

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 19:32

Why are you assuming it would be people who are able to work? You can work and be on a crap wage that does not afford you to provide for your retirement. Zero hour stuff and being self employed but on a low pay.

The welfare state is there to look after people who cant look after themselves. Benefits are not a reward for working hard.

But they would still be earning a state pension of £230 a week so it wouldn't affect them

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 19:44

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 19:43

But they would still be earning a state pension of £230 a week so it wouldn't affect them

You said it should be £400pm

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 20:06

Things are getting a bit confused between state pension and pension credit so to try and clarify what I meant -
The OP pointed out that state pension is £230 a week for those who pay in. Pension credit is £227 for those who don't.
My take is to abolish pension credit. If you don't pay in you get £100 a week UC not £3 less than someone who's worked.
Sahp and the ill and disabled would still qualify through NI credits. The low paid would need to earn £6425 per annum (£123 a week) to qualify. The self employed can pay £182 per annum (£3.50 a week) and still qualify.
Don't see why it would be a problem.

TheSpiritofDarkandLonelyWater · 18/09/2025 20:09

Gingernessy · 18/09/2025 20:06

Things are getting a bit confused between state pension and pension credit so to try and clarify what I meant -
The OP pointed out that state pension is £230 a week for those who pay in. Pension credit is £227 for those who don't.
My take is to abolish pension credit. If you don't pay in you get £100 a week UC not £3 less than someone who's worked.
Sahp and the ill and disabled would still qualify through NI credits. The low paid would need to earn £6425 per annum (£123 a week) to qualify. The self employed can pay £182 per annum (£3.50 a week) and still qualify.
Don't see why it would be a problem.

Some people are ill/disabled and are not on UC because their spouse earns too much. I was in that situation for nearly 10 years.

Again £100 is awful to live on.

Swipe left for the next trending thread