To ask for a refund for cold coffee

[Poorqualityequalsfewercustomers]

Disclaimer: I love my coffee hot to the point where if it’s not burning my mouth, I don’t like it. This means I only go to a few coffee shops that I know will give me what I want.

My local coffee shop is clearly struggling. They have raised prices and shrunk the size of the takeaway cups. Six years ago it was £3.00 for a cappuccino now it’s £4.20, which is expensive but it’s a local business so I have tried to keep supporting.

However, they have also started switching their coffee machine on later in the morning which means it’s not fully heated when they open their doors.

I arrive at doors opening at 8 and then take DC to school and walk the dogs before I log on to work. I can’t go after the dog walk/drop off. Several times recently my coffee has been less than hot (to me), but probably still drinkable to most people. But I haven’t enjoyed it and have mentioned it wasn’t very hot, which is how I know about them not switching the machine on until later as they told me that was likely why and they would switch it on earlier again. However yesterday my coffee was cold. And I do mean cold - the milk was fridge temperature - not just not warm. I grimaced but bared with it. But the same thing happened today, so I asked for a new one. I was served a new one right away with lots of apologies. But the new one was also cold so I asked for a refund.

I’ve already told myself I won’t go back as £4.20 is far too much for a cold coffee which I think is mostly down to their turning the machine on later. I also won’t be going at weekends with DC anymore as I’m unwilling to spend so much for something I don’t enjoy
.

But I’m just wondering what others would have done in my place. They seemed really upset I wasn’t happy and even more so when I asked for a refund and I know they are really struggling. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re gone within the year as every time they have raised prices they seem to have lost the morning ‘regulars.’ But I don’t think it’s unreasonable when you’re paying for something to expect to be given what you want (and more importantly, what you have always had).

Just wondering if others would have done the same? WIBU to ask for a second cup and then a refund? At what point would others stop supporting a local business to try and help it stay open?

If I was in your situation I’d probably get a life and make my own coffee. Knowing what time they turn their machine on is hilarious.

That isn’t steam, it’s a mist of water droplets. Steam is invisible.

I only know because they told me when I noted that their coffee had been a bit colder than usual recently and they said ‘oh that’s likely because we’re turning the machine on later’ (or words to that effect).

As it is, I have a J10 at home. However, I like being able to support local businesses because without them my high street will end up littered with shitty Costa and Nero.

Oh, OK.

I'd stop using that coffee shop and write to the manager to explain why. You are not under any moral obligation to use this particular shop simply because it's local or a small business or because it's struggling, but your feedback might be helpful to them.

Used to work in a coffee shop. You can ask for a specific temperature. The milk jugs they froth the milk should have a temperature probe and there’s an ideal range of temperatures for coffee. I can’t remember what it is now, something like 120 degrees. One regular used to ask for xxx-hot so we marked 180 on the cup even though it burned the milk at that temp, it’s what she wanted.

If they can’t deliver it then take your business elsewhere. That’s way too much money for cold coffee.

Are you unable to read/comprehend the post properly, or are you being deliberately argumentative?
The OP isn't talking about the coffee being not hot enough for her personally. She says it was fridge cold.

Did you tell them it was cold as in fridge cold? What did they say? That's not an issue with not turning the machine on early enough, it sounds like the machine isn't working, or someone doesn't know how to heat milk.
As an aside, where do you live that it's £4.20? I'm in London Zone 2 and go to a couple of local Indies; don't know if they're seriously struggling, but I doubt they're raking it in either. It's £3.40 for a flat white, admittedly with my keep cup, but that's with oat milk.

It's not your job to keep a struggling business going

If they can't afford to run then they'll have to close. I fully appreciate its hard for small businesses but tbh £4.20 for a coffee (and a smaller one than a few years ago) is ridiculous.

They know OP likes her coffee very hot - switching the machine on 5 mins earlier is hardly going to put thempout of business whereas losing regular customers because they can't serve hot coffee (pretty much the first ask of a coffee shop!) will -if OP is going every day thats £21 a week.

Tbh a coffee shop opening at 8am is already quite late -lots of people will be up and out hours before that.

They could have warmed up her milk a bit so it wasn't ice cold which probably exacerbated the problem when she asked for it to be redone.

I'm not sure why people are moaning at op for the temp thing - if you actually bother to read it properly she's noticed a difference rather than it never being hot enough, so clearly is a change they've made rather than a deliberate decision than they think it's the best temp to serve coffee at.

Telling someone to get a life and then saying you find it “hilarious” that she knows what time they turn it on is really …… ironic!

Am on your side but just to flag that with just basic inflation £3 in 2019 would now be £3.94 and that's not taking into consideration the rises in minimum wage and energy costs etc.

I have gone to an independent place for years. Their mochas are my favourite: strong espresso, dark chocolate, smallish cup. I ordered one once and asked for it to be replaced as I thought they had given me a hot chocolate instead. Replacement was exactly the same so they were clearly having an off day. Like you OP, if they keep getting it wrong on other visits I'd ask for a refund, especially if they are not taking on board feedback.

Although a £1.20 increase in six years seems reasonable!

I would just stop going, I expect that the loss of other customers is due to similar reasons.

Do they not steam the milk in a jug? When I worked in a coffee shop we had to steam the milk to a set temperature(there was a thermometer in the jug with the milk).

Try a latte as there will be less froth which will always be cooler than the milk.

If it's a manual machine

1. The coffee won't brew unless the water is close to boiling temperature
2. You can't create a cappuccino without using steam. If the machine isn't hot enough, the steam wand just splutters.
3. To produce froth, the milk has to be heated to a certain temperature, I think it's 60° (I'm rusty). Ideally you shouldn't heat over 70°. Although obviously, you can.

Commercial coffee machines can take half a hour to get to temperature, but you can't really use them below temp.

The way I was trained was for a cappuccino you heat the milk, then make the espresso, as the espresso doesn't hold it's temperature as well as the milk. If they are making the coffee before the milk it might be cooling too much.

The other possibility is their milk jug is too thin, and they aren't using a milk thermometer. If they're judging the milk temp by touching the jug, and they have a cheap thin jug, then it will feel hot too soon. Most places use thermometers these days though.

Good coffee shouldn’t be boiling and the ideal temperature for milk should be between 55-70C. I’m a coffee snob and if I get hot coffee, I know it’s not been prepared properly. Also, with inflation, £4 is the norm in my area for a coffee nowadays from an artisan independent coffee shop. 6 years ago is a long time, especially with the cost of living. It surprises me when it’s under £4 now! Chain coffee shops might do it differently but when I was trained up as a barista in an independent coffee shop in NZ (a country who sets the highest coffee standards with Australia!), the temperature was paramount. If you want it boiling, just make sure you ask them as they shouldn’t do it otherwise. It shouldn’t be cold though, and they shouldn’t be offended if you say it’s cold as they should re make. Mistakes happen. Ultimately they should listen to customer need :-)

so you are a coffee snob, that is fine.

OP is a - what can i say? Heat Snob? - different type of coffee drinker. I'm with her, too cold coffee with too cold milk smells like vomit. I can't go near it.

@LittleBitofBread South East! It’s bonkers as it’s more expensive than Westminster/ Central London, according to DH.

They were really apologetic about it being fridge cold, but seemed at a loss as to why! But it’s been getting progressively colder over the last few weeks…so maybe PPs/You are right that it’s nothing to do with not turning it on early enough but that the machine is dying.

Just gutted as I’ve been going there so long as it’s a family run business and I like supporting local

I am not sure why you kept going back, knowing that previously it was cold, or didn't say something about wanting extra hot. I ask for this in Costa as they only heat milk to drinking temperature meaning I immediately have to down my drink, if they do it extra hot then I can let it cool and enjoy it for longer.

I think some businesses have taken advantage of COL to raise prices by more than is necessary. Did the coffee shop really need to increase the price of a coffee from £3 to £4.20 (+40%) in 5 years to cover their costs? Perhaps they did, but if service has gone down at the same time and now the coffee is too cold, I wouldn’t feel guilty about taking my custom elsewhere.

There's a big difference between not lava hot and stone cold though. My favourite lunch place at work serves its coffee cooler than I'd like but I still wouldn't call it cold.

Has there been any change in staffing OP? Stone cold sounds more like user error than the machine not being warmed up, and steam can't really be less than boiling point. If they can't make reasonably hot cup of coffee while being the most expensive place locally, I'd say they're doomed to close regardless of what you do.

I think you gave them more than a fair chance to get it right. I would have done the same re the refund

I would have given the supervisor/manager the feedback and exchanged it for something else instead of a refund and then not gone back.

However, fridge cold isn’t even a coffee, the cafe should have been proactively offering you a refund and they should have been mortified.

Could they not tell they were making cold coffees?

Yes, but the point being most don’t and a decent barista wouldn’t serve burnt coffee. You’re likely to be in the minority of people who do like it this way.

Are YBU to refuse to pay £4.20 for a cup of cold coffee?
No you aren't. I wouldn;t pay £4.20 for a cup of hot coffee frankly, that is completely extortionate. You like your coffee very hot but are willing to compromise your taste and have it just normally hot in order to support an independent. But paying over the odds for cold coffee is a step too far, if they keep serving cold coffee they'll find they lose a lot of customers.

I tried a new independent coffee place in our town a while back. It was expensive but like you I thought I'd support a new business. The woman on the counter started serving me (shop was empty), then took a phone order while getting my order, said 'I've just got to do this order' and started making up a load of rolls and coffees for the phone order. Really rude, but I waited and eventually got served, then a friend of hers came in and they stood talking in very loud voices about an animal cruelty video they had seen in graphic detail, while I was having my coffee and cake.

Obviously I've never been back. Walking past it now it never looks busy and I'm not surprised. If your customer service is crap, whether it is cold coffee, rudeness or slow service, people will take their custom elsewhere.