To ask how you learn a language?

[ThatCyanSheep]

I’m totally embarrassed to not be able to speak any other languages, I did German and French in school but gave up at GCSE level. I’d like to start learning French again but have no clue where to start? ChatGPT had suggested purchasing textbooks and working through them to get the basics, but is there another way?

Join a class with your local council

That pretty much encapsulates learning a language when you’re a bit older. I’ve done Duolingo and an in person class for 3 years now. I also have an a level. I’m still shit, and not really improving but I keep on!

Textbooks (esp beginner stage) are dull as dishwater and not very natural language. They are useful as an aid to classes but a bit crap on your own.

Duolingo got me to the state where I could have a basic conversation, and from then I started having as many conversations as I could in the language. Easy enough as I live in a country which speaks another language. In the UK, you'd be better off going to an evening class or conversation group.

Ask ChatGPT to pretend to be a flirty Parisian waiter who speaks no English, or whatever else sounds entertaining. Make it make itself useful!

This does actually sound good, though. I found Duolingo was very good at that - getting me to work out how I could build a sentence I wanted which would be understood.

It is much less good at helping me actually understand the response for this, I find it's incredibly helpful to learn some phrases like "Again please?" or "Please speak slowly" or "My [Italian] is not very good" or "Sorry, I don't understand" and then don't be afraid to clarify by repeating back to them what you think they said, and don't be afraid to rely on sign language! Practice and exposure is all you need to develop the receptive listening skills.

Often when native speakers speak to learners, they forget to slow down and simplify their language. Some people are better at this than others, but the other thing is that most people who have studied a language formally can understand much more than they can say. With Duolingo, I think it's often the opposite at first. So you can come out with a sentence which will be grammatically incorrect but basically communicate what you wanted to say, which if you'd learned by a traditional route would mean that you can understand probably about 10x more than you can say. So it gives people a false impression of where your understanding is.

Asking them to slow down/simplify or repeat things usually helps remind them you are a non native speaker which gives you more chance to catch what's being said.

I hated French at school and didn't feel I'd learnt much at all, even though I took it to GCSE.

Then I lived in Italy for 3 years. I swear to this day I got the basics in Italian on one night with a group of Italians who didn't speak English and one who did at my shoulder ready to translate back and forth- and a load of red wine!

In reality though it took me 18 months to get fluent, during which time I spent a lot of time with non English speakers.

Knowing Italian made something "click", and improved my French, too! I think it's gaining the courage to hurl yourself into a foreign conversation willy nilly, hoping for the best. Watching DS1 on holiday, he might know a bit of French from school, but he's way too self conscious to attempt to use it.

We went on holiday to Germany this year and I got a fairly decent grounding in the basics from Duolingo. German has different challenges from French though- comprehension and pronunciation isn't so difficult, it's the grammar (and those insanely long portmanteau words!) I just called everything "das" and hoped for the best- on the rare occasions I was able to find non English speakers to practice on. I also rewatched Deutschland 83 (and 86, and 89).

Lol! A friend of mine used to say the best place to learn a language is in bed. Certainly worked for my brother!

I’m fluently trilingual from childhood, and I’m passable in a couple more. The absolute best way to learn is through immersion. If that isn’t an option there’s nothing wrong with textbooks and/or programmes like Rosetta Stone, but supplement them with a tutor. If private lessons aren’t available locally, you can find a tutor online.

Also, watch movies and listen to music/podcasts/youtube in the language you want to learn. Learn to read books in it.

I think it is hard as an adult especially if you're busy, realistically it takes a long time and a lot of effort if you just do an app or weekly lesson. Immersion is the best way, but sounds impractical if you have a life here. My Italian teacher did small zoom lessons which was fab, her advice was (if you're unable to be in the country) try to think in the language (e.g. walk around the supermarket and think "une peche" or write your list in French before you shop, before booking appointments or calling somewhere think "how would I do this in france" and say it aloud, walk around thinking about the weather, the scenery etc in the language) I found it a really good way of embedding learning when I couldn't go and talk to people from the country. The other thing is to learn some grammar terms, it's important in French and if (for example) you don't know what a verb is, or a pro noun, or a tense, it makes understanding what you're being taught tricky. You'll have to conjugate verbs - and if you don't know what that means first, it makes doing it hard to grasp. Having said all that, I'm still shit at Italian!

Let's face it, I don't think there are many people like Katrina waves

You must really have a talent for languages!

I learnt mostly by actual practice. Reading, watching movies, etc.

For the very basics, grammar, etc, you have to use a textbook, there's no other way. But as soon as that's out of the way, actually using the language is the best way to learn. You can start with comics and children's books. They're fairly simple. Look up words you don't understand. The first time you'll forget them. The second time too. And the third you'll remember them.

Move onwards to more complex stuff as you go.

I learnt english and spanish this way. My russian is a bit less good but I can manage daily.

I should also add, it helps if you find a language you love. I utterly hated French at school, despite being decent at it. I quite enjoyed my Spanish evening class at Uni, but didn't really keep it up. I absolutely adore everything to do with German, yes even the complex parts of it, and feel as if it's a lifelong journey now. 🇩🇪

I have a lot of bilingual colleagues and basically the only way they have learned is by living in another country to learn the language or picking it up from family members.

I have tried to learn Italian and French in the past, and failed miserably.

Hi OP, have you had a look at the Institut Francais website? They offer online courses that are likely to be extremely useful.

I went to a French school as a child (not in France) but haven't used it regularly since my teens so it's really rusty. I have found watching French TV series with the subtitles on in French rather than English, incredibly helpful. I've also been trying to read French books and writing down new or remembered vocabulary. But I do really wish I had someone to speak it with! The best way to learn or polish a language is to use it.

https://www.institut-francais.org.uk/french-courses/#/

It completely depends on how you learn best. I am a very visual learner ( as I have poor hearing). I need to see how things are spelled and also understand sentence construction.

i have learned 3 languages ( in addition to English). As a child I learned French by total immersion ( ie living there). However as an adult this didn’t work when I tried the same thing (with Italian). This was as although I lived there, my language course was almost completely based on listening and speaking. We literally weren’t allowed to write things down or have them spelled out. It drove me insane.

when I moved to another country and tried to just pick things up by listening, it didn’t work. So I went to evening classes which followed a text book, and I then flourished. Other language aids (like just conversation) could only help a little.

Everyone has a preferred style of learning. You need to find yours.( also Duolingo is useless). And practice practice practice.

I also found duolingo useless tbh. I don't understand what the fuss is about.

Online classes might be better

Duolingo can be good if you stick at it, but please don’t be taken in by those people who say you can learn the way young children do, by listening, understanding and repeating.

Babies’ and young children’s brains are programmed to mop up language - the ability does decline when you’re older. And children have many years in which to absorb and perfect language. Adults rarely do!

So learning (alongside) the grammar from a textbook for new learners, will help you to get it right. E.g. irregular verbs* so you don’t end up sounding like the little kid who says ‘I bringed it,’ or ‘I goed…’. Which is fine when you are 3 or 4! But most adults would prefer not to make such mistakes with a foreign language.

*honestly not hard to learn!

I'm exactly the same - whatever I'm learning, I need to be able to read it. I have French to Higher level (Scotland) but never used it in real life. So unsurprisingly I forgot almost all of it. Decades later, Duolingo was helpful in reminding me of the basics, whereas a holiday in France didn't help much as I couldn't 'see' what people were saying to me!

I used Duolingo a lot to learn Welsh. It was great for learning words and sentence structure which gave me a headstart when I joined an online class with Dysgu Cymraeg.
I agree with others, immerse yourself in the language, Domingo, online classes, residential weekends, read, listen to radio, watch French Netflix.

"So learning (alongside) the grammar from a textbook for new learners, will help you to get it right. E.g. irregular verbs so you don’t end up sounding like the little kid who says ‘I bringed it,’ or ‘I goed…’. Which is fine when you are 3 or 4! But most adults would prefer not to make such mistakes with a foreign language."*

But this is one of the problems that adults give themselves - the self-conscious fear of not getting a sentence or phrase 100% correct. Children don't have this fear, so they just say "bringed it" and learn over time the correct grammar, but in that "bringed" moment they were able to communicate sufficiently for the conversation to flow. When you're learning a language, getting a sentence slightly wrong is fine whether you're 3 or 4 or 34 and nobody goes from being a total beginner to being totally fluent without making mistakes along the way.

Adults tend to hold back instead of just giving it a go - asking "Train station this way?" is just as understandable as "Excuse me sir, would you kindly direct me to the nearest railway station?" and having the stock phrase "Sorry, my [language] is not so good" helps both when asking the question and when receiving the reply. In addition, much of face to face communication uses non-verbal signals, so absolute spoken fluency is not necessary as hand signals and facial expressions can also be used.

I did GCSE French at school and do it on Duolingo. I found Duolingo OK for bringing back my school knowledge. Useless for learning grammar. I also tried it for another language I'd never done before and I could recognise words on there but couldn't say a thing. Certainly couldn't communicate.

I've been on holiday to two French speaking countries this year and spoke quite a lot of French. That definitely helped.

To progress further I think I'd need to find a way to speak it to someone here, and improve my grammar and listening using textbooks and watching French films or something.

I absolutely agree. I'm a firm advocate of hurling yourself into a conversation and hoping for the best. People are usually quite understanding (even in France, unless I'm actually making less mistakes than I think I am 😆).

You'll learn way faster than only opening your mouth if you're 100% sure what you're going to say is grammatically correct.

I wouldn’t say Duolingo is a complete waste of time - it’s good for vocabulary but it doesn’t give you much understanding of structure or why things happen.
I’d completed it but was still really only at beginner level. Conversational classes are the best way for me whether in person or online. Watching TV programs, listening to radio, podcasts, reading etc helps.

Lots of good advice on this thread (and a few slightly bonkers ideas). I’ve recently started following Jennifer Kirchner on Facebook as she does bite size posts on French grammar, slang, phrases, vocabulary etc.

I learnt French at school and carried on with it at uni and then worked in Paris for a French company so my French is/was fluent but I worry that it’s getting rusty now I’m back in London and not using it.

Completing Duolingo, for many languages at least, really only results in a competent beginner/promising intermediate, at best.