To think that men just don’t get it

[CostelloJones]

I will admit that today I’m a bit tired and blah but I’m just trying to get on with the mountain of stuff that needs doing. DH asked why I was quiet. I said it’s not that deep and there’s no point talking about it because the conversation will go nowhere but he insisted. And yeah, it went south because he didn’t get it. All I really needed was for him to leave it OR a handhold while I had a little vent and I got neither

I have taken this week as AL with the purpose of being at home for youngest DC who is starting primary school and doing half days. DH can’t possibly take AL apparently because this week he needs to work earlier than usual etc. it’s always me that takes the time off never him.

I was trying to explain how it can just feel a bit rubbish when literally all you do is go to work, run around after other people, pick up after other people etc… it can feel like all you are valued for is what you do for other people but not who you are. Down to even taking AL being dictated by so many other things and you are the one expected to do it. My example after this was when you are pregnant and feel a little special and then you have the baby and you aren’t the priority any more. Sometimes it would be nice to feel a bit special and have the focus on you for a bit.

his answer were:

• Well that’s life
• Are you unhappy then
• surely the kids are what makes you happy
• oh is this about your parents (who are an absolute PITA but didn’t need bringing into this conversation)
• It isn’t about you it’s about the kids
• These are the sacrifices you make as a parent
• Well some people don’t even have a family
• there is so much going on in the world why are you moaning about this

I now feel like an awful person. I’m not naive to the fact my life is actually fine and I’m just being a bit of a princess but also.. why shouldn’t I want to be appreciated? That has no bearing on other things going on in the world and my perspective/support of them.

AIBU that men just don’t get it because they are hardly ever in this position?

They are indeed. The OP could bowl every one of them back at her DH with "Don't the kids make you happy then? What sacrifices are you making? It's not about you, it's about the kids." If challenged in his own language and by the standards he thinks his DW should live by as opposed to those he prefers for himself, maybe he'd see how unreasonable he's being. And if not, he'd have a very good idea of what she thinks of his double standards and what he can do with them.

That was my point 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

And I was agreeing with you.

He could get it but it doesn’t want to. Men choose to abdicate responsibility for the home and family life. It isn’t that they are inherently incapable of understanding the demands.

It’s almost like I didn’t have a crystal ball to see exactly how our life would be after over a decade together, funnily enough. I’m
nit going to marry someone I think will act like a moron throughout our marriage am I?

you are actually doing the same thing as him by basically saying “well it’s your fault what did you expect”

and for all his faults (he definitely doesn’t get the mental load stuff) he is in my corner for other things.. you do only get a snapshot through MN. People can be multi faceted.

I personally wouldn’t mix with a couple who viewed themselves as very superior to other people/ were incapable of listening without judgement (the irony hey?) - but isn’t it fantastic that as adults we can make those choices

Lots of people say this. In my first job, I noticed the bosses (male and female) tended to be fine with mums leaving for parent things-but not the dads. At baby groups, people tended to think it was weird for dads to want to stay at home. And more than a few people joke about women hitting men, but (most) take domestic violence seriously if a woman is hurt (should go without saying I think it's not ok for anyone to hit their partner, bigger or smaller, regardless of sex).

@CostelloJones "These are the sacrifices you make as a parent" I don't know how you didn't bludgeon him to death with his own socks over that one!

These are the sacrifices YOU are making as a parent. He's making none of them! He can't even take leave to look after his own kids, it's all on you. I would not have been able to resist biting at that one...

I did bite at that one l, but, ti be fair - it makes sense when he is the main earner. I know it makes sense with the way our lives are set up at the moment. It’s just frustrating that it often feels like I am the one who has to sideline all of my priorities because of the way society/our lives/school etc are set up. I KNOW that it’s not the end of the world and other people have it a lot worse. And I chose it. But feeling appreciated for something other than doing the washing would be nice sometimes and that’s it really 🤣

I’m sure lots of people resonate with wanting to feel appreciated in some capacity surely?

I agree. I also think that many men are ambivalent about having children, and often have them because it's what their partner/wife wants.

I had this conversation with mine and he honestly didn’t get it - he said all of the right things but through his actions, I could tell he didn’t get it.

The sad truth is, as women we tend to generally pick up the pieces. So sometimes, I just refuse to do anything - it would be a small thing, but I can’t be the only one that does everything. It’s hard at first , when your default is to just do it, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Men often don't understand that you just want a handhold or to vent. They think they need to "fix" something, that's my understanding of the male psyche anyway! I think if you told him you're not after anything other than a hug and some appreciation he might hopefully get the message.

That said, I don't think it's just a male thing because my mum says similar. Anything I bring up for a bit of a moan it's always "there are people far worse off than you" and it's just really dismissive and invalidating.

Sorry you're having a tough time OP. Honestly though to answer your question, it depends on how often you're "tired and a bit blah". We have the roles reversed somewhat in this house atm. My OH is a surly, miserable git most of the time. He does work, and is a good parent and does his share of housework (I also do all of these things), but because he doesn't have his dream job, he's periodically a fun sponge for chunks of time 🙄 Had a few weeks of it recently with the schools going back, and tonight I reached the end of my tether and told him I couldn't bare to be near him, or make any plans with him, because he's constantly bringing me down. I think our life is lovely, or at least has the potential to be, if he could count his blessings a bit rather than focus on the negatives.

Obviously if someone's occasionally had a bad day or just feels a bit low, that's different and people should try and be a bit sympathetic.

Either way, hope it improves soon x

My first husband also didn’t get it and divorced him. My second husband gets it, so he’s a lot better!

How dare he say 'well that's just the sacrifices you make as a parent' when he isn't making the same sacrifices. If it was me, I would have told him he is an equal parent. I will take a couple of days off, and I'm going into the office on the other couple of days and he can sort out the problem of the settling in period at school. And in the conversation you've just had if be turning it all round on him, why does he expect that you make those sacrifices as a parent when he is equally their parent but won't. Why does he expect you to be happy martyring yourself for others when it would make him miserable. He does sound like a bit of a twat but you also sound a bit resigned to 'men being like this' when they're not all like that and even if they are they're capable of change in some cases and you're also capable of putting in some boundaries.

Are there no women at his level at his work, that make sacrifices like emergency leave for kids sick days, taking leave for child related things like settling in days or starting later/ finishing earlier on occasion for child related reasons? Normally seniority means more flexibility, and often the men who 'can't, because career' just actually 'won't' because its womens work. Its possible to have a good career, be the main earner, and do your share of the shit that comes with running a household / being a parent.

This main earner attitude needs to change. Funnily enough it only seems to be an issue when the man is the main earner. When the woman is, she finds the time and makes the choices to do the necessary for the DC.

I'd be saying to him that as the main earner he has the seniority to make some additional sacrifices in doing more of the running around for the DC while you sacrifice your time to increase your income. Both will benefit your family.

He doesn't get it because he doesn't do it. I can imagine his life staying generally the same. It's you who's had to make sacrifices and notice how different your life becomes. You're the one having to juggle both work and running around after the kids and feeling that weight on your shoulders. If you were stressed before, his comments are only going to make you feel less appreciated! Maybe he would think differently if he took on your role.

Exactly. Like thousands of single mothers with successful careers.

I roll my eyes every time at this “he’s main earner with such an important and demanding job” nonsense. It’s truly pathetic and amazing thatso many women buy these excuses from their husbands.

And, of course, you will remain the lower earner and this dynamic will become more entrenched over time if your time and your career isn’t given any priority, making him view you as even more inferior to him and likely in the end leading to the collapse of the marriage once the children are grown up and he has no further use for you.

If he cannot handle the demands of a career while doing 50% of parenting/ household tasks then how exactly does he think many women do the former and 100% of the latter alone?

Tell him “this is what he signed up for”, “this is life” and “the children should make him happy” and to start behaving like an adult.

Absolutely. Research has shown that women who are the higher earner in their marriage actually do an even greater proportion of household and childcare tasks than women who earn less than their husbands, on average.

Therefore clearly this isn’t driven by who earns more, rather by misogyny and a certain large subset of men who are useless and lazy and need kicking into touch but sadly have managed to find wives who are gullible enough to accept their sexist excuses and “big important job” rubbish.

Omg urghhh. ‘Surely the kids are what makes you happy’ ok if they are so joyful please do take AL yourself.