Menstruators!!! - What's Up, Docs? on Radio 4

[IdaGlossop]

This is an interesting programme on Radio 4. I have learnt that 1/3 of menstruators suffer period poverty. Interesting. I have learnt that the plastic in a packet of sanitary towels is the equivalent of eight plastic bags. Interesting. I have learnt that it is possible to make a 30-minute programme about the defining physical process of the female body without once using a female pronoun. Ludicrous and infuriating.

YABU = menstruators is an inclusive word to use to describe male and female people losing the lining of their womb each month

YANBU = menstruators is an absurd word that panders to the deluded fantasists who have persuaded themselves that a human being born male can lose his womb lining once a month for 40 years.

Great idea. I have emailed the feedback email. I'm putting my money on a weasley response maintaining their position.

I feel a book coming on: BBC English - its rise and fall.

Or, even, "women who menstruate"? Why didn't you opt for that?

I agree clarity is paramount.

I'd personally say that "woman" alone does the job. It has done for decades, and (speaking of context) is perfectly accurate for this population-level stat, given the vanishingly few outliers, fairly self-explanatory age ranges and, especially, the purpose: maximising lay people's understanding. In contrast, the current tendency to erase the word "woman" is leading to the most confused stats ever in this area - "1 in 3 people need period products at some point in their lives" and "bodies with..." kinda thing. It disadvantages key demographics (eg. second-language speakers - see the Plain English campaign) and systematic avoidance of using clear language like "girl" and "woman" even has the potential to undermine younger children's understanding of these processes.

With regard to this, why, in the above, even partially support this trend by going for "females who menstruate" as opposed to the perfectly straightforward "girls and women who menstruate"? We don't typically "adjectify" other groups eg. Black people, and "female" applies to all animals.

Please, let's just stick with the words everyone used to understand before all these absurd attempts to justify what is, fundamentally, erasing a shared understanding of - and our ability to refer to - the standard experiences of half the global population.

I agree. I thought they did their utmost to be sensitive.

Look at the vote above to see how insensitive a majority of women on this site found it, though.

Look at some of the responses to see how genuinely distressing many find it.

What's the greater good here?

(And in any case I genuinely don't believe it is an effort to be sensitive to the tiny, tiny minority of outliers - see my first post above for what I'm certain is really going on).

I opted for "females" instead of "women" because "women and girls" would be more accurate.

I didn't listen to the show but, assuming "menstruators" was used a lot, I think "women and girls who menstruate" is a bit of an unnecessary mouthful to use repeatedly in its place, and I hardly think that "female" is inaccessible medical jargon.

It’s my opinion. I’m not interested in what the majority think.

I always wondered why sanity towels were so expensive.

Actually, some women don’t. Women with learning difficulties, language barriers, who have had gynaecological surgery, or are a particular age, for example.

Not everything is the trans and/or woke. That word didn’t even exist before bots implanted it into your brain.

it was mostly people, people, people.
The guest did say girl at one point when talking about period poverty and she did talk about gender identity in a matter of fact way.

It was woke but not the worst I’ve heard.

Same. 100% woman, but haven’t menstruated for over 2 years.

Some women don't what?

Do you mean some women don't have ovaries? Yes we know, I think that was covered up thread.

Or do you mean some women don't know they have ovaries? Yes, that's why clear simple language is important, to capture as many people that a message applies to and let them know that this message applies to them. Which form of words is going to help women with learning needs or limited English understand the message - saying 'menstruators' or saying 'women'?

We shouldn't need a word like 'woke' as shorthand for 'privileged people with luxury beliefs falling over themselves to include other privileged people with luxury beliefs and in doing so excluding some of the actually vulnerable people by mangling language', but here we are.

It is dehumanising, that’s just the right term. Reduced to the function, not allowed to be a person. Horrible.

How come everyone must bend over backwards to call trans people by whatever trans people want, but when woman stand up and say that we want to be called women, it's "sit down and shut up"?

That's the $64,000 question

Probably made by Spunkers..

If you've had gynaecological surgery, I'd assume you're aware of the outcome and so can use that to judge whether something about ovaries or periods (or whatever) applies to you in that situation. Same with periods - I'm sorry but I don't think any reasonable woman who has stopped menstruating due to age (or hasn't started yet for the same reason) is genuinely going to be aggrieved or offended by hearing 'woman' rather than 'menstruators'. If you have learning or language difficulties, surely 'women' is clearer than 'people with ovaries' or whichever convoluted euphemism is used?

I’ve just listened to it again (on double speed so might have missed bits) and I think it is said twice. Mostly it’s “people”.

She said “evolved and decided”. Clumsy really. She didn’t need to say decided, just evolved.

Decided? 😂

What utter numpties. For the hard of thinking, the menstrual cycle is controlled by the endocrine system, which manages hormones to regulate involuntary bodily processes. These hormones are automatically released by the brain and ovaries in response to internal signals. Because this system functions without conscious control, menstruation occurs involuntarily. No, humans did not "decide" to menstruate.

I hate replacement of the term "women" with "menstruators", "ovary owners" or other rubbish.
But in this context they were specifically talking about menstruating women, not non-menstruating women.

I have not been a menstruator for most of my life. Ignoring the pre-pubescent years, the reasons have been directly due to the fact that I am a woman: Use of hormonal contraception, pregnancy, breastfeeding- all uniquely female experiences, yet all removed me from the category of menstruator. Still a woman though.

You may feel that "menstruating women" is better than just "menstruators" and that's a valid point of view, but just "women" is not appropriate or accurate here.

I would love to meet a male who has ever menstruate of given birth, anyone?

They didn't say that males can menstruate. They wanted their language to include trans men. That the clumsy and awkward wording then may exclude the very people they want to include (e.g. those who experience period poverty) is a point that needs to be considered.

It’s a word to describe women who are of the age to menstruate surely? Neither pre periods or post menopausal.

I never understand the outrage with terms like "people who menstruate". It seems to me that the people this language is sensitive to are biological women who do not menstruate. Using the term "women" instead of "people who menstruate" is simply inaccurate - many girls menstruate and many women do not. I would think the equating femininity with periods, with all the handmaid's tale type vibes this have, is a far bigger consideration than the few trans men who menstruate when choosing this kind of language.

Thank you for sharing. Because I'd not have learned any of that. The moment the term mensturators was used I'd have switched off in a rage.