To think adoption is often more about adults’ desires than children’s needs?

[MyNoisyGreyPombear]

It’s always framed as noble. But AIBU to think adoption sometimes fulfils adults’ wishes first, while the child’s trauma and identity issues get overlooked?

The chief reason siblings are separated, in my experience, is a trauma bond or other difficulty in the relationship that means it’s felt best for them not to be placed together. People do adopt sibling groups, when it’s felt appropriate for them to be placed together.

Siblings are often only available to adopt together and if that's the plan, they can age out of adoption as prospective adopters may feel unable to cope.

And tbh it is hard to suddenly be the parents of two or three (or more) children with hugely challenging issues.

Imo social workers often approve people who have completely underestimated the difficulties they will face. My husband and I adopted two siblings and it was beyond difficult trying to parent two children with their level of need.

And adopted siblings often have trauma bonds and huge jealousy issues. It can be very difficult to manage this.

For a while the gov had an Adoption Tsar, who was intent on finding adopters for large sibling groups - he changed his mind when he discovered the realities. There is not the same push to keep large groups of siblings together there once was, as it is sadly incredibly unrealistic to expect it to work.

I know someone who wanted one but was given a sibling group of three. It turned out the oldest was too badly damaged, was a danger to their siblings and had to go back into care.

@KimberleyClark

Adopters are not 'given' children'
There is a matching process in which the prospective adopters are involved.

If they only wanted one child they should have refused.

Nobody strongarmed them into adopting three children when they only wanted one!

These days, as far as I’m aware, you would need to be specifically approved for a sibling group…?

yes, the LA used to pretty much walk away!
That’s a huge change. If I’m honest it would certainly influence me choosing to adopt, and I’m very very pro-contact largely. It’s potentially linking you to quite an unknown and permanently, with risks of new information coming up, new advice from CAMHS etc or the child’s own wishes being ignored.

As an adopted adult I find that parents who have adopted children often talk to me about their experience. Mostly this is positive but I know of 2 sets of parents who describe having 'saved' their children and feel that they are special for having done this. I also find that my and other adopted adults experiences of being adopted are not heard enough and we have been denied access to the support that adoptees under 25 are entitled to.

I love my parents and have had a wonderful life, I wouldn't have it any other way. But being adopted and being taken away from my birth mother (in particular) has caused a lot of trauma, even though it was the right thing to do.

As an adult I have worked with mothers who have had their children removed from their care - every single one of these women had experienced domestic and sexual abuse and were not given the support needed to enable them to parent their own children appropriately and safely. As much as these mothers were not able to safely parent, it is not fair to say that they wouldn't have been able to do so with the right support. But the problem is that this costs money and involves long term support, something no government is willing to do.

My views on adoption are very conflicted and tied up with my experience and emotions, however I wish more support was given to women to repair the cycle of abuse which in turn would create a more positive adoption system.

Just to be very pedantic, adopted children are not ‘damaged’, this is such a derogatory term and one which implies no hope or potential. Instead, children in the care system are traumatised by their in utero experiences, particularly with reference to the toxic trio of drugs, alcohol and domestic abuse, the removal from the first mother who has grown them for nine months, plus, most likely, their early life experiences of the care system.

Your opinion is based on next to no knowledge. My sister adopted a child. Your opinion couldn't be more wrong.

As much as these mothers were not able to safely parent, it is not fair to say that they wouldn't have been able to do so with the right support. But the problem is that this costs money and involves long term support, something no government is willing to do.

My experience as a social worker is that the opposite is true. There’s a huge amount of work with parents to support their parenting - often children are left for far too long before being removed and then spend far too long in care settings while social workers work towards reunification. I’ve had parents have extensive support - ie twice and three times daily visits from experienced workers and they still can’t parent safely.

How long do you leave children in very unsafe living environments? Keeping in mind the bar for removal is very high, and the evidence required for permanent removal is even higher. I think if you saw first hand the circumstances some children live in you’d be pushing for a quicker process.

Yes birth mums have often experienced trauma, violence and aggression and their addictions issues are as a result. More often than not the children have also been exposed to all of these in their parents care. The children can’t wait for parents to get themselves together - they’re growing and learning in that environment. How much neglect and abuse should a child experience?

You know we don’t just pick our kids off the shelf? There’s a complex assessment process and honestly, the adopters wants or wishes are at the bottom of that list, with the children’s needs front and centre, as it should be.

Assessment for sibling groups is pretty extensive and there are many reasons why siblings aren’t placed together. The adoptive parent only wanting one isn’t part of that process.

I’m highly qualified, very aware of the impact of trauma, and adoption issues. I was still knocked for six parenting two very frightened traumatised children from scratch. Absolutely nothing can prepare you for that - going in with your eyes wide open doesn’t protect you from the impact of suddenly becoming a parent to very hurt children. Adoptions fail because there is minimal support for adoptive families.

I totally get what your saying and I don't disagree. My point, perhaps clumsily made as adoption always makes me struggle to get the right words, was that where there has been DVA we need to do things differently. At the moment not enough gets done quick enough - perpetrators get a slap on the wrist and sent back to the home rather than a proper punishment put in place for them and support in place for the survivor, non mols are broken with no consequences, women are not believed, and then blamed. The system needs to be better.
I'm not having a go at social care, I worked alongside them for years and know the work they do can be amazing. But it's not the people doing the jobs, it's the system that doesn't work.

You could say the same thing about having your own children. It’s about the adult’s wishes and desires, not about the child they are bringing into the world.

I take your point.

In response to other posters, this was over 30 years ago so things were no doubt different then.

As an adoptive parent can honestly say from my own experience that there was extremely minimal support once my DS came to live with us &. When the adoption order was granted 7 months later the support was non existent.

A couple we have been friends with for 20 years have adopted 3 children. I haven't a clue what the childrens' losses and journey look like because I haven't asked why they have been adopted and they haven't volunteered the information - nor should they!

I guess I think it's more palatable to think that if we just provided more support then these families could stay together. This might be true of the 100k plus children in the care system who are not planned to be adopted - many of them will go home.

But the children who are adopted are from the most challenging backgrounds. A sw explained to me that usually everything has collapsed - where do they start?

It is easy to think it's all the bad dad / partner's fault and excuse the birth mothers from the equation. No one likes to think that mothers could do anything bad to their children.

But they do and it kind of infantilises them to suggest otherwise.

In fact in my girls' case it was absolutely the birth mother's behaviours that had the children removed. Birth dad was making attempts to look after one of the children but he couldn't cope with two.

Social services put the family into a residential assessment unit -- for 3 months! It was the longest stay they had ever had. They were determined the family should stay together. But birth mum wouldn't play ball. The sws were giving her instructions every half an hour by the end but she had no interest.

And she told everyone she lost her kids because of the birth father being a paedophile to cover her own contribution.

Labour in particular think that more funding will reduce child neglect. I think it helps those on the cusp of tipping over, but there are families where nothing will work.

And the children who suffered - having to have nappies cut off because they hadn't been changed for a week, who nearly died from dehydration - they have a right not to keep being traumatised by having to have jolly meet ups. It should not be about risk of future harm when these decisions are made - what happened to many of these children through neglect is simply awful and a clean break is not unreasonable.

You would not be allowed go adopt for purely 'noble' reasons. You have to want to (as you put it adult desires) otherwise the adoption would almost certainly break down

The whole system around DV does need to get better absolutely. Women still face blame and shame - you see it here daily.

Its complex when thinking about children though, for every woman that manages to leave and rebuild her life there’s another who will let him back in, or enter another abusive relationship, or lie to services about him being back. Of course there are issues of fear, coercion, emotional abuse - people seriously underestimate how hard it is leave and stay safe in future relationships. There are some really good practice models that pair with the non-abusing parent but there’s always that balance to be struck.

There is a church organisation in the UK called Home For Good which encourages its members to adopt. This is something that is relatively popular in US Christian groups - they see it as being able to save someone's soul. (Some are now pivoting to "adopting" unwanted embryos from IVF procedures and either carrying the child themselves or using a surrogate).

I remember our sw telling us that people either wanted to parent a child or save a child, and they wanted to weed out the saviours. They tend to find it hard to bond emotionally and can have unrealistic demands.

Anyway, check out www.homeforgood.org.uk

Yes, all of this. It is a system built around something that already hasn't worked. Very difficult.

This absolutely grinds my gears, the churches/Churches’ involvement in contemporary adoption. It’s almost like they were not responsible for the forced adoption of thousands of babies over several decades. Do you know what’s even worse, Home for Good and - even worse - the Evangelical Church, have seats around the top table with the government and they are instrumental in shaping policies around adoption? Most definitely not in my name.

My AD2’s birth mum is only in her early thirties and she has been a victim of domestic abuse in every single relationship she has ever had. She has lost three children, all of them to separate partners who were violent, abusive and coercively controlling. AD2’s birth father was found to be responsible for the death of a 10-week-old baby, there were no criminal charges, just two finding of fact hearings.

AD(9) has regular, face-to-face meet-ups with her birth mum. Last week, they went together (without me) to watch the K-Pop Demon Hunters singalong movie and then to McDonald’s for tea. AD2 loves these meet-ups, as does birth mum. I have relaxed massively since I first adopted nearly 18 years ago, and I have come to appreciate truly the importance of my AD2 having these ongoing links to her birth mother and, by extension, her wider birth family.

Birth mum is heartbreakingly vulnerable but, by her own accounts, she has had a neglectful childhood. It’s depressing how the cycle continues. I often want to bring her home with us after these meet-ups and help her get her life on track.