AIBU to think the UK should introduce a proper “right to return” for the British diaspora?

[Unicornuni]

I keep reading all these articles about our falling birth rate and how in a few years deaths will outnumber births. At the same time, so much of the political conversation seems to be “we need more workers” vs “we don’t want more immigration.”

It made me think loads of countries have policies where if you’ve got a grandparent or great-grandparent from there, you can claim citizenship. Ireland, Italy, Poland etc. all do it, and Israel has its Law of Return.

Why doesn’t the UK do the same? There are huge numbers of people around the world with British ancestry (Australia, Canada, US, South Africa etc.). If they had a grandparent or even great-grandparent born here, why not give them an easier route to come back? It wouldn’t even have to be framed around race, just ancestry, like other countries do.

It seems like an obvious middle ground: helping with the demographic issue, keeping cultural/historical links alive, and avoiding some of the rows we always seem to have about immigration.

AIBU to think this would actually work?

This does exist: https://www.gov.uk/ancestry-visa

Would that include people from the Caribbean or what used to be India?

YABU because it already exists.

Yes, I know about the Ancestry Visa, but that’s only for Commonwealth citizens with a grandparent born in the UK. It also comes with quite a few restrictions, you need a job lined up, you can’t access public funds, and it doesn’t cover great-grandparents.

What I was thinking of is something broader more like Ireland or Italy, where you can go back an extra generation (or even further) and claim citizenship rather than just a temporary visa. That way, people in places like Australia, America or Canada with British roots could actually “return” more easily.

Yes, but only if they actually have a UK-born grandparent or great-grandparent. So for example, if someone’s family is in the Caribbean or India but they have a great-grandparent who was born in London or Manchester, then they’d qualify.

If they don’t have a direct UK-born ancestor, then no it wouldn’t apply. It’s about ancestry, not just being from a country that used to be part of the Empire.

I'm British, born and raised in the UK, living abroad with my foreign husband and foreign born British children.

We have absolutely no plans to return to live in the UK because public services and state education appear to be in such a mess, house prices are out of control, and we don't want to spend thousands of pounds on visa applications for my husband to live in the UK, with no guarantee that one would be granted.

They could encourage people who left the UK much too recently to be considered "diaspora" to come back by not making it unreasonably difficult and expensive to bring their spouses with them.

The UK never had the kind of mass economic emigration that places like Ireland and Poland had. Why would Americans and Aussies want to come here en masse? Most developed countries have falling birth rates, anyway.

If the UK so desperately wants to keep its immigrants white, it should probably rejoin the EU. Maybe that will be Reform's next big policy announcement.

That's not true. Until the early 90s the UK was a next exporter of people, even including, Irish, Windrush and Ugandan immigrants. There is an enormous diaspora, but unlike other countries it's never been politically or economically leveraged.

Edited: as an emigrée with diaspora kids, I can't see why people would return for all the reasons previously stated, apart from maybe S Africa or the Caribbean. Most emigrées were always economic go-getters rather than being forced out by war so they made good lives for themselves elsewhere. In Ireland I think there's more of a culture of leaving for a few decades then coming home, but it never felt like Brits who left would be welcomed back.

I am British, but my children can’t pass on their British nationality to their children as they weren’t born in the UK, even if it’s the only nationality they have. Other countries aren’t this restrictive. Adding another generation here would be a great idea to create ties to the UK.

Perhaps in order to get more people of working age we need to have more jobs that don't require degrees, so that every 16 and 18 year old has a better option than going to a low grade university. Three or five years more of a working career is up to 10% longer than being at university with massive debt to repay and starting full time work at 21.

I don't understand how that works. What nationality do they get then? A lot of countries, the UK included, doesn't automatically give you nationality because you were born there (although once you've been there a few years you can apply to be naturalised).

And for employers to stop requiring years of experience for an entry level job.

I was looking at the incoming trainees at my employer last week. I got a traineeship straight from university/postgrad vocational course, albeit that I did a few work placements.

But all the trainees joining my employer have years of work experience already. We do take apprentices as well but there seems to be a massive gap between 18+ school leavers and graduates who've been working for several years.

Why would people want to come back though?

It's too expensive to live here anyway. Who would want to come?

Is there any evidence that people who had a British great grandparent are clamouring to come to UK? We could relax the rules by all means, but I don't see that people would actually come. A lot of people in UK have applied for European passports since Brexit, but only to make travel easier. They haven't actually moved to the country of parent or grandparent origin.

Please don’t try and make us do anything like Isreal. Their ‘right of return’ doesn’t actually apply to people who would be returning to their homes because those people have all been killed or displaced with no rights at all. What they actually mean is ‘Right to colonise’.

Other than that, you might have something interesting to discuss. I don’t think it’s necessary though, just let people emigrate if they want to emigrate.

Yep. I am one of them. I have zero plans to move from the UK, but I'm applying for my Irish passport to make life easier when I travel in Europe.

(And in case the country goes to ratsh*t and I need/want to move)

In certain circumstances an otherwise-stateless person can be granted British citizenship if a parent is British, regardless of whether that parent is British by birth or by descent. But in normal circumstances the pp is correct, only British citizens by birth (British citizens born in the UK) can pass on their nationality to their children by right. Those children, if born outside the UK are British by descent, and their children don’t have a right to British citizenship.

YABMU

Also I thought we were bursting at the seams with too many immigrants. How would this help?!

This sounds like a disguised plea for someone who fucked off 40 years ago, made some lolly abroad, and who is now required to pay for their care when they realise how bad other countries are for immigrants.

Alternatively it could be a disguised suggestion for immigration from white people, based on the rather naive idea that you can't be British if you aren't white ?

And "British diaspora" ?

British diaspora. Is there such a thing? Do you mean the ancestors of the Scots and Irish from the north who were dispossessed and made their lives elsewhere away from Mother England?

I thought though, that if a British citizen by descent (but not by birth) gives birth to their own children in the UK, those children can claim British citizenship.

Yes, it's curious use of the concept of British that rarely appears in peoples canon.

"British" as in Ireland (you know, the part of Britain that most people don't even know exists) plus Wales and Scotland is technically "British (until the flags are lifted).

Obviously English people did choose to leave England - most of their own choice. However it's not quite the same as the rest of Britain.

In which case it is blatantly about race. Why else would someone with a British grandparent or great-grandparent be excluded from your scheme? Ie all the Indians, west Indians, or people from elsewhere in the world that Britain colonised and exploited for hundreds of years.