To think a hard boundary should be drawn with teachers?

[ForCandidSheep]

I’ve seen a growing expectation for teachers to be constantly available, responding to emails outside of school hours, dealing with parents’ demands and even engaging with students on social media in some cases.

Surely they should be a clear boundary? Teachers are professionals, not 24/7 customer service reps. Parents shouldn’t expect instant responses and personal contact outside of school should be a firm no.

AIBU to think that more people need to respect teachers’ time and stop blurring the lines?

I’m a SENCo and it’s got to the point with several parents now that they will email or phone the school for me and expect an immediate response. I’m often in meetings all day (or supporting dysregulated pupils) and so can’t always respond. They get angry that I might not have got back to them the same day and then complain to the headteacher about it.

I also have parents emailing me in the holidays wanting responses to things, even though I have an out of office on every holiday stating that I might not have access to emails and stating the date I’ll next be monitoring and responding to emails. I’ve got one parent who I can see has emailed me weekly about the same thing and I can sense her frustration in this week’s email that I’ve still not responded.

I’ve also got some parents who will email me and then immediately phone the school office to tell them to tell me that they have emailed, who will then get angry on the playground with me when I’m on gate duty that I haven’t responded yet.

Two way street this.

Secondary school would be crazy with all emails via admin staff, there's not enough admin staff for that and they'd end up forwarding stuff that could be sent direct.

I sometimes forget to schedule send and reply at 10pm to an email. It suits my life to leave school by 4pm, deal with my kids, and then do school stuff later. I don't want to have a 9-5 limit/expectation, because I'm not there at 5.

Agree with you OP. It should not just be teachers that should have a hard boundary, however. The French were going to introduce one, not sure if it happened though.

I think people in general are getting less patient, I work in a solicitors firm and people will complain that they call up and the solicitor isn’t available to take their call immediately, it doesn’t occur to them that they might be on the phone to someone else or busy doing work that needs concentration. They’ll complain they don’t get an immediate email response to something that might need looking in to or just isn’t urgent so needs to be deprioritised behind things that are urgent.

Yes, but I believe anyone in a job should have boundaries. But in this case too many entitled parents are causing this issue. They are already marking and doing work outside of their working hours and this needs to be stopped and supported by senior staff who make the decisions.

I think part of the problem is that teachers don't really have any admin time. PPE time is for planning lessons, teaching time is obviously that, so replies to emails do usually happen at odd times.

I always go with the theory that no news is good news. If your child was struggling then you would certainly have more communication with the school I am sure.

I agree, it's all a bit OTT in some nurseries and setting up unrealistic expectations for the future.

Nobody said they were.

This isn't just a school thing. Certainly for a long time, certain professions are expected to be on 24/7, and post COVID and with the idea of flexible work, I've found the expectations to be available and responding to work matters have grown significantly. And the more you try to meet those expectations, the more it becomes the norm and people aren't even grateful for you working at midnight/holidays/at your child's wedding (a horrifying call I had this week, when a colleague announced how someone had taken important calls during their son's wedding, and how this just showed they were committed to the organisation's cause - and there was barely a murmur of thanks).

Personally I refuse to have emails on my phone and try to be disciplined with my holidays. People use email at a time that suits them, but that doesn't mean an instant response is possible or even merited. Management needs to protect staff against the truly deranged, but sensible personal rules should also be put in place to prevent burnout trying to be a superhero.

I once saw my sons' Maths teacher at a music event where we both had children playing. (We had actually known each other very vaguely through the music activity before my sons started at her school).

I asked if I could sit next to her as long as I promised not to mention Maths. I saw her visibly relax and we had a nice chat about the kids' orchestras.

But that’s the same for all professionals - people are likely to deal with personal matters out of their own working hours. Tho I’d also not unique to teachers.

Most professionals find it irritating but get on with it. Of course it is open to all professionals not to answer emails/pick up the phone out of hours, unless urgent.

The Amazon instant generation.

Given the question was asked about teachers I inferred - I think not unreasonably - that it was considered acceptable for others.

My children’s schools - primary and secondary have both removed ways to easily contact teachers. I don’t mind as it’s really rare that I do but my child’s secondary used to allow the kids to email the teachers directly through Teams and unfortunately it was misused so taken away.

I've got three boys with SEN so I've sent my fair share of emails to teachers. I don't usually send them until I've finally got a chance to sit down at the end of the day - often after 9pm. I've had a reply that same night more often than I haven't. I've started to make it clear on my emails now that I don't expect a response outside of office hours. I don't expect teachers to be remotely effective when they are answering emails at all hours.

My dd school won’t give teachers email to parents. You have to email the office and then the teacher calls you

yes the messages to teachers should be triaged and only the urgent should go through that day

I love that you think this is so.

Parents have always had arse holes amongst the cohort - my dad retired from teaching in 1999 after years of harrassment including threatening calls to our house phone and a father having him up by the throat at the primary school gate because Dad had sent his son out the class the day before. The kid had repeatedly stabbed the girl next to him with a compass.

Shoddy parenting and abuse to teachers is not a new phenomenon but it's far worse with the "Amazon next day delivery" expectations people have about everything in life these days. And access to emails and social media.

What does that even mean?

Of course. Like all other jobs, turn off your emails or don’t reply when you’ve left work. If anyone complains ask if they work when they’re off duty.

Absolutely agree. I will be making a concerted effort this academic year to be less "available". I went into my new job very eager to please and I was responding to parent emails in bed at night. Ridiculous!

I had no idea that parents have access to teachers in that way. I find that a bit concerning.

Most parents are going to email the school, if they need to, when they're not at work themselves, either because they're busy at work or because the issue only becomes apparent after they've picked their kids up.

So it's unreasonable to expect parents not to send "out-of-hours" emails.

It would be unreasonable for parents to expect an instant response, but I don't think most do. Most reasonable parents would expect teachers to respond at a time that suits them, maybe within a few days, provided that the matter is not urgent.

If schools are putting pressure on teachers to respond to parents out of work hours, then that's a different matter entirely.

You will always get a few unreasonable people, whether that's parents, school management or teachers. I've had my child's school get a bit shirty with me that I wasn't immediately available when they called to ask me to pick up my unwell child (who turned out to be absolutely fine 🙄). I did call them back within 10 minutes of their call, which I personally thought was ok.

It doesn't happen to others in the same way.

If I submit a repeat medication request online to my GP at 16:59, it obviously doesn't get dealt with until a day or two later and I have no way to question/chase/complain. Same if I log on at 17:01 and it's physically unavailable.

If I email my solicitor about my house move with a straightforward query, her assistant responds during his working hours and posts what I need in his own time. (ETA: own time, meaning when convenient, not during his non working hours)

If I want to cancel a dentist's appointment, I have to wait until they're open to call.

If a parent of the 200+ kids I teach decides they want something from me when their kid gets home, they often expect a reply before the kid has to come back the next day, will badger the office, will accost me, or will send the kid in with a bad attitude and criticism.