Is there more to being a friend than a title?

[Suns1nE]

Since my best friend began a new relationship last April the contact we have/allowed to have has drastically changed/diminished. Previously we saw eachother 4/5 times a week. Spoke on the phone for hours every day and text constantly. For clarity this is a Mumsnet taboo friendship F/M. I knew and understood that the level of contact would change… that was obvious and understandable. First the in person stuff died off to the point that I’ve seen him once in 12 months and that was to help him clean out his fridge. The calls had become less frequent and shorter and dropped off completely around 6 months ago. Texts became shorter and more abrupt. We work in the same job in the same industry but not together. We bumped into eachother one day at work and I asked if I had done something wrong and was told no but his girlfriend checks his phone so he doesn’t like to message anymore about anything other than small talk/work.
I said that to me if we weren’t allowed to see eachother, talk on the phone and now even text then IMO we aren’t friends. We are work colleagues that were friends. He disagrees and says “nothings changed”.

Who is right? Is there more to being a friend than just someone saying you’re friends? Or is someone a friend just because you give them the title?

That's a LOT of contact. It would inevitably be less now he's in a relationship as there are only 24 hours in the day and he wants to devote that time to his girlfriend.

If she's checking his phone, then either she's generally controlling or specifically unhappy about your friendship. That's for him to deal with.

Friendships fluctuate. They aren't dictated by availability but by strength of feeling and connection. You may be finding out your feelings were stronger.

I think the level of contact you were having before he met his girlfriend was unsustainable. If I was in a new relationship with someone and they were committing that much time to another person I would bail. Whether she checks his phone (which is quite controlling) or he’s just using this as an excuse, who knows but you were never going to be able to maintain this.

Friendships change, it’s impossible to maintain all friendships at the same level of intensity and frequency due to life getting in the way. Its not realistic to expect people to keep up a certain level of intensity indefinitely.

We would all save ourselves a lot of grief if we learned to roll with this a bit more rather than flouncing if other people seek to reset things to a pace that suits them. Let him be and chill about it. He may come back as a friend, he may not. You won’t achieve anything by making him feel guilty about not being able to turn the clock back.

I know it’s always the assumption in F/M friendships that one has more feeling but it’s a huge NO. It’s 100% platonic and always has been.

I knew things would change when he met his girlfriend. No issue with it being less but when you aren’t allowed to communicate about anything other than work is that friendship? Surely to be friends you have to have a connection or common interests?

With the extraordinary level of contact you had it's no wonder if his gf is unhappy about his friendship with you!

You don't actually know if his gf does check his phone. It may be his way of excusing himself from cooling your friendship without him seeming to be the bad guy.

My sympathy is with the gf and I'm glad for once a guy seems to be prioritising his partner..

I simply don’t think your friendship as it was before his relationship was in any way ‘normal’ — not because it was M/F, but because you talked daily on the phone ‘for hours’, texted constantly, and saw each other four or five times a week, which sounds obsessive and unhealthily over-dependent. It’s not clear to me how you could fit that around work, other friendships and life in general, far less either of you being in a relationship.

Ultimately the definition of the friendship is irrelevant though. You (and he) can describe this relationship as you see fit, it doesn’t matter how others see it.

The question is whether it’s working for both of you. Only you and he can answer that.

The friendship has certainly evolved. Friendships do change over time. Some recover and become stronger, some don’t and fizzle out. Its not clear which category this falls into.

But I can promise you that guilting him about how he spends his time when he’s in a new relationship isn’t going to go well for anyone. You need to accept that your friendship has changed. Honestly you probably need to start giving it less headspace.

Doesn't really matter if your friend is male or female, once a friend enters a serious relationship then their time with other friends is going to drop off a cliff. It's almost like you become a long-distance friend overnight, only seeing that person once in a blue moon. It hurts for the one who is left behind but unfortunately 'that's life' as they say.

OP you're going to have to give him a bucket load of grace and leave him to get on with his relationship otherwise if you keep pushing it you'll lose what's left of the friendship. Time to shift your focus elsewhere and accept things, because you can't change anything by getting angry about it.

I think people think my comment was made as a guilt trip. It wasn’t. It was more just a statement of fact and triggered me to assess whether I have an unnatural idea of “friends”. I always say I have no friends because I don’t talk to people due to shared interests out of work or I couldn’t contact them to tell them a major life event or ask for support (because that was my definition of a friend) … however if it’s just someone giving you the title because you’re friendLY with them then I probably have lots because I get on with everyone at work.

That friendship has run its course and that’s ok. It was just a catalyst that made me wonder about what being a friend means.

You seem to be very ‘all or nothing’. Like either it’s endless daily phone calls and seeing one another four or five times a week, or it’s nothing. Are you sure this previously intensive friendship hasn’t been actively damaging to you, both by taking up all the time you would have had available to make and nurture other friendships or a relationship, and by giving you skewed ideas about what constitutes usual levels of contact between friends?

Whoa she checks his phone - ugh couldn’t be having that.
His fondness for you probably hasn’t changed but his circumstances have. I certainly have friends where for whatever reason contact is much reduced - that doesn’t mean I don’t care for them anymore, and when we meet up it’s like we never left off.
If you see him at work can you arrange some lunches?

It’s not an all or nothing. Reduced contact I get but when it’s no contact except work or small talk that’s a change in the quality of the contact rather than the quantity. I always thought a friend was someone you could call on for help or support (emotional or practical) and that’s the friend I’ve always been but that isn’t an option now. It also seems that my definition of friendship isn’t particularly accurate so in that sense I’m always going to be disappointed because I’m not going to find what I think a friend is in others. That is, of course, a me issue but at least I know from this thread that my ideals are skewed so I can try to adjust them.

we do the same job in the same industry but the nature of the job is we aren’t in the same place at the same time (and if we are it’s accidental) and I wouldn’t ever want to meet up without his girlfriend knowing or approving because that wouldn't be fair on her.

Successful friendships require a significant degree of flexibility as inevitably people’s lives are in a constant state of flux. It is up to you whether you still consider this a friendship. I would maintain the friendship because all throughout my life my friends and I have had to adapt to the many changes in each others lives.

Being adaptable has saved friendships and the ones that were not capable of adapting inevitably dropped off.

I’m not talking about your friendship with this guy, but the contrast between your intense former friendship with him and the way you talk about not talking to other people outside of work or feeling other people in your life aren’t friends because you wouldn’t call them for support or to tell them a major life event. That’s what I mean by ‘all or nothing’. You seem to think friendship is a very full on affair.

Friendships don’t need to be all or nothing. Of course Alison from Accounts is going to taken aback if you’ve barely spoken and you suddenly call her at 3 am from A and E. But you might see her for a drink after work, and later on it might develop into something closer, or it might not. It’s also nice to have less close friends who are just around to have fun or pursue a hobby with. My point is that you start small, and that some friendships aren’t ’ride or die’ is fine too.

And it sounds as if your formerly intense friendship ate up all the time when you could have been making other friends. You put all your friendship eggs in one basket and that basket has bailed.

I have lots of friendships; some I speak to once or twice a week, some once or twice a year. With a lot of varying degrees in between.

Your idea of friendship seems quite prescriptive.

I have a very similar friendship with someone I first met at work too - the issue is the controlling girlfriend and him allowing her to vet all his interactions with other people, not your understanding of friendship.

My friends & I have known each other for 10 years, we talk a lot about work & non work things. Once he met his partner we hung out less, in part because they've since moved further away. But we are still friends and still make time for each other when we can - I went to their wedding last year, when he's in London we'll often have lunch or a drink after work. He's got other female friends from school & uni that he will also see independently of his wife. We've all met her & get on, she just is happy to accept that he has friends accumulated from throughout his life that he'll want to hang out with from time to time & he does the same for her.

I don't know if he's clearing every interaction with his wife or showing her messages (ours would be 45% early 2000s pop music/45% quotes from Succession/10% work). One part of me wouldn't care because I know there is nothing for her to worry about, one part of me would be sad that he could be in a relationship where there is so little trust.

If you're as close friends as you suggest, wouldn't he have introduced his girlfriend to you by now? My DH knows all my friends and I know his. If he was going and meeting up with a friend and he never introduced me to that friend, I'd find it odd.

Yes, exactly.

I think you saying neither has more feelings actually is not correct. Either he HAD more feelings and now he is in a relationship they have gone or he believes you have feelings for him and out of respect for his relationship he wants to just be friendly so he does not lead you on. The fact his new gf checks his phone is a bit strange however he has made it clear that you are not in fact friends just colleagues and right or wrong you need to respect that decision.

Would you say that when you speak to those people that it’s a quality of conversation/connection ie genuine mutual interest in eachother and sharing information or is it the same as the conversation you have with the checkout operator on Tesco “hi how are you?…. All good, you? … yeah good”. Because when I say small talk I’m talking about the latter and that’s where I think (or should I say Thiught… because I am open minded and learning from this thread) a friendship differs from being friendly.

This Previously we saw eachother 4/5 times a week. Spoke on the phone for hours every day and text constantly

Were you spending all your working hours on the phone, or finishing work and speaking till bed?
That's way more than a 'friendship'!

Absolutely. I totally respect the change. My curiosity was just peaked with regard to what friendship is… is it just a title or does it require more. I’m learning that it’s actually more of just a title.

I wonder if this is a case of how most men prefer get their emotional needs met by women. I've no problem believing in platonic M/F friendships but I think he's gone from getting his emotional needs met by you to getting them met by his girlfriend and he doesn't need you in the same way.

Flux is very normal in friendships and adaptability is good but I think a large shift like the one you describe is harder to deal with.

Mainly talking on the phone during commutes to/from work and when on breaks (nature of job is you’re on your own so breaks aren’t social).

But that’s literally not what anyone has been telling you. What people are saying is that your definition is far too prescriptive, if you think friendship necessarily involves lengthy daily conversations and almost daily in person contact too.