A pass is a pass? GCSE

[Rumplestiltz]

At GCSE, a 4 is a pass. When employers/apprenticeships/further and higher education institutes ask for a pass in maths and English, it’s a 4.

So why the fuss about “strong” passes, which is a 5? Why does the Government organise its data on the proportion who get “strong” passes in English and Maths? Bridget Phillipson saying it’s a travesty that white, working class boys aren’t getting “strong” passes in English and Maths and their life chances are affected as a result. It kind of undermines those who work very hard to get to that pass line of a 4 (teachers and students) to be told it’s not good enough.

I am sure I will be told it’s very easy to get a 4 etc etc, but for some kids in these subjects, it isn’t.

So my AIBU is - a pass is a pass.

Why? Is there a time limit on progression?

In my area in order to continue in some form of education there are two entry points one for level 4s and another for level 5s.

Therefore there is a huge push to make sure that as many pupils as able leave with level 4 in both Maths and English (minimum). It just opens the door to more opportunities. You can be admitted without the required level 4s but generally you will not be able to continue in the school 6th forms but will be directed to the sixth form colleges.

Not at all schools.

its years ago now but the school I went to which streamed for maths had a stream just for people who needed to pass maths at O level for progression to their next education choice. Those who did not need it but were at the same standard could elect to go into the CSE (that dates me!) stream. We were given the best maths teacher the school had and she made clear that she was not there to turn us into maths geniuses but to get us through the O level. I still remember and bless her name. The school was very pragmatic about exam success. While they encouraged and celebrated it, their focus was on progression and people were primarily encouraged to focus on the exams and grades that they needed.

I'm a teacher and in my opinion there is absolutely NO need for 9 grades at GCSE. Pass, strong pass, merit, distinction would be enough. Even degrees only have 4 grades and A Levels 6 (still too many) - it is ridiculous how many there are at GCSE!

Unless I am mistaken:

7-9 maps to A/A-so a nine is an A and a 7 is an A. A high 8 would be an A* and a low 8 would be an A.

4-6 maps to B/C with the same rules applying as above. So a 4 is a C, albeit probably not a very good one.

1-3 maps to D-G with 3 being D/E, 2 being E/F and 1 being F/G.

So a four is a weak C and thus a ‘standard’ pass. A 5 is a ‘strong’ pass.

However, in Mathematics, for instance, the 4 this year comes in at 26%, so it is quite flattering to consider it a pass of any description.

That will be in the higher paper
It will be significantly higher in the foundation paper .

I absolutely agree with Bridget Phillipson. The statistics for white boys on free schools meals is a disgrace. Also white girls on free schools meals but they do slightly better than boys.

There is something fundamentally wrong with our education system when almost 40% of these boys don’t leave school with very basic maths and English knowledge.

The Victorian education system in this country urgently needs to reform.

Come off it OP, regardless of whether or not a 4 is technically a pass, if one demographic is underperforming and disproportionately not getting 5s or above then of course if it is appropriate for this to be a target for improvement.

There’s definitely been a change in market conditions over the last two years yes.
Small businesses are getting smashed on national insurance contributions in their mind whether it’s actually happening or not as a matter. Which is reducing the pool of employers prepared to take on apprentices with any grades

But to study for a degree at some institutions you need A*s across the board at A level - that doesn’t mean that A or below are not passing grades, just that course requirements vary. Plenty of places take students for A level or other post 16 qualifications with 4s (or lower, depending on the course) though they may require higher grades in course specific subjects.

Of course a 4 is a pass. Just because certain 6th forms (schools or colleges) require 5s or higher to be accepted onto A level courses doesnt make 4 a fail.

@Franpie Are the schools the problems? The stats do not tell you much more than a child sat a test on a date and this was their score. There is far more detailed analysis that needs to be completed before coming to a conclusion as to why a child did not meet the minimum. Blaming it all the schools/curriculum will not change anything.

Some colleges. Everything you say there, about nowadays and the past, only applies to some colleges. And many students don't go to college, they continue with A levels/other post 16 study at their school - which May take a different view on raw grades anyway as they know the background.

When I did mine (O levels) it was numbers.

1 being the best, 9 the worst followed by U (ungraded)

So today my level 9 for French looks brilliant.

At the start of my teaching career I taught O levels and CSE. A top CSE (1) was equivalent to an O level pass.

Then the big change to GCSEs. in letters - easy to understand. Then came the meddling A* etc.

When introduced there was no fail. But 6th forms, colleges employers (and society) took anything lower than a C to be a fail, or if not a fail then undesirable.

I can see where they are coming from - a D in maths and you'd really struggle at A level.

But its hard on those children who did really well for themselves and got a D. Those who exceeded in themselves.

So well done to everyone, what's done is done. Tomorrow is another day.

Low passes can hold you back further in when you want to get into certain uni courses
which I think is sad

If 40 percent of kids are not getting a 4 in English and Maths, so not passing English and Maths, why not focus on that instead of denigrating the existing pass boundaries? If it’s somehow being decided that a 4 is not good enough what do we want that proportion to look like - 60% plus??
And previous posters who have said that failure to get 5 and above in English and maths closes down options, that is true simply because schools have made it so. There is no reason that a kid who has a 4 in English and maths and higher in a subject they might like to study could not do so, enjoy it, and do fine (Cs etc) but schools want the A stars and pupils off to RG unis.

Not the schools as much as the entire system.

The way we teach and test in this country is not conducive to how so many children learn.

The whole point of an education system is to have the entire population of children in a country reaching adulthood with good, basic knowledge. We are not doing that. We have a huge proportion of society that the system is letting down and feeling disenfranchised.

As you’ve been told, it isn’t an audits a C. Plus C/4 is a level 2 pass. There are grades below that which signify differing qualities of a level 1 pass. Do you think there should be no grades below a level 2 pass, just ’FAIL’?

I wouldn't think of it as as black and white as pass/fail. 2 is better than 1 and 9 is better than 8. It's more about what is realistic for that child and what they need to go on to the next thing. Under the old old system a G was a pass. But in some ways a C was and that's what got focussed on. But ultimately it's a spectrum and you just want to do as well as you can.

It’s not ‘seen as passing’. It is passing. This is comp,Evelyn different from higher entry requirements set by some institutions. Unless you think everything from A down at A level is a fail because it’s not good enough for Oxbridge entry…

When AI gobbles up millions of desk jobs, hairdressers and plumbers will be having the last laugh!

^^this.
a grade 1 is still a GCSE.
Only a U is a fail.
the “majority” of students should get a 5 or above, so 51%, which means 49% should get a 1-4. It’s time we stopped telling students they have “failed” because they are not in the top half. If everyone achieved the marks to get what had previously been a grade 5, the exam boards would simple adjust the grade boundaries. That’s is why you can score 70% in one subject and get an A, but score 84% in another and get a B.
Honestly the whole system is a joke.

It's always been the case. In the old system, Ds and E were "passes" - as long as you didn't get an F or U you'd passed.

But employers always wanted a C. Nothing new here.

And that is a major factor behind the current political instability that is building. I think the government is quite right to be looking at ways to improve this. I wish they were doing more of it.