A pass is a pass? GCSE

[Rumplestiltz]

At GCSE, a 4 is a pass. When employers/apprenticeships/further and higher education institutes ask for a pass in maths and English, it’s a 4.

So why the fuss about “strong” passes, which is a 5? Why does the Government organise its data on the proportion who get “strong” passes in English and Maths? Bridget Phillipson saying it’s a travesty that white, working class boys aren’t getting “strong” passes in English and Maths and their life chances are affected as a result. It kind of undermines those who work very hard to get to that pass line of a 4 (teachers and students) to be told it’s not good enough.

I am sure I will be told it’s very easy to get a 4 etc etc, but for some kids in these subjects, it isn’t.

So my AIBU is - a pass is a pass.

I am not writing kids off. However, today, my college have had about 300 students aged 18-60 receive their GCSE results today. Yes technically you are right a pass is a pass.

However, my students will tell you that studying for their GCSEs with houses and jobs and children and elderly parents and many other adult responsibilities was 1000 times harder than studying when they were young, and had few responsibilities. There will be 2 small groups - those who though doing a GCSE at college sounded fun and those for whom illness, caring responsibilities, or something else, prevented them from taking any GCSEs at all.

That leaves the overwhelming majority will say that they came back, because they cannot do what they want to do with the grades they have. Most will have low passes but they will need those 5s to get where they want. Trust me, if a pass was a pass, further education would look totally different from what is does.

Well I obviously do now. But they still lower than his sister and cousins and much the same as his friends so why would I think they are so excellent. ? I don't know anyone who has 4 s and 5 grades at all

Oh trust me I know all about how difficult life can be for some learners. But the thread is largely about 16 year olds. For any mature learner it doesn’t matter what they do or will go on to do - it will be very tough.

Not the point of the thread, but I don’t think exam grades per se are the problem with FE. Chronic underfunding is the problem, and a lack of investment in WP in the compulsory sector. The gap between the regions shows is this and it’s a disgrace.

I ask for a minimum of 5 for any vacancies that I have.

5 GCSEs? Or all Grade 5s in all GCSEs?

Yes. Repeatedly.

Just under 22 percent of GCSE grades were 7 or above. Stop with the faux modesty.

Exam grades mattering is what creates a lot of FE!

If you say so

Lol I loved that advert 🤣 😂

One school’s results don't prove anything. My figure is the national one for this year and that’s for numbers of 7s, not the number of pupils getting exclusively 7 and above, which will be much smaller.
They look potentially like the results of a selective school. They don’t show a normal bell curve which has 4 and 5 as the most common grades.
How have you managed to stay so unaware of the grades and what they mean?

I don't give a shit what GCSE grades anyone I'd interview has. I'm interested in their degree and their previous experience. GCSEs get superceded by your next qualification. That'll be the case even more so now that all young people have to stay in education until they're 18, no one's getting a job with just GCSEs.

But despite not knowing a single person who got 4 s and 5,s it's incredible isn't it?

Oh to live in a world where grade 4s are easy to obtain and sneered at.

I think the 4s are probably the hardest fought for grades of all. Especially in English, where basic competency in English just isn't enough for that magic 4.

I haven't read the full thread, but on a day like this, when you've lived the struggles so many of these kids go through to get 'just' a 4, really pisses me off.

I've always taught in comps. It's what I came from and where I try and try to make a difference. I'm proud of the kids who got 8s and 9s but honestly, they didn't need me. They had everything set up already.

I'm beyond proud of the kids who fought every step of the way for that 4. The ones with sen; in foster care; with shit parents; who are too busily involved in county lines to really do much in school; who are pregnant or just had another abortion; who have all manner of other issues in their lives. For them, a 4 opens doors.

I'm equally proud of my 2s and 3s. Especially those 3s who were on 1s and have pulled it up. But they'll be gutted tonight, because only a 4 counts and they won't believe me when I tell them what an achievement it is, because so many people in the country think a 6 or a 7 is easy and can't believe anyone could fail to hit it.

I'm glad I work in a school that has pathways for kids who don't get the magic clutch of gcses, so they get to experience 6th form and gain other qualifications. I'm glad we accept kids on to some A level courses with 4s, because a lot can happen between 16 and 18.

PP just knows far superior children clearly.

My DD got 2 5s, 5 4s and 2 3s (one of those was 5 marks off being a 4). She's adopted, her birth parents both have an IQ under 80, and her experiences in her early years have caused her significant difficulties on accessing education. I could not be more proud of what she's achieved in the face of severe adversity.

All those posters who don't know any kids who got less than 9 7s, or who describe a 4 as barely scraping through, should check their privilege and stick their academic snobbery somewhere appropriate.

You are right @Rumplestiltz .

The reason is because in the "old" system a pass was grade C or higher but the new numerical grades don't map exactly to the same boundaries. A high C or low B in the old system would be a 5 in the new system. A lower C would be a 4. So if a 4 isn't counted as a pass then all the students who were just scraping a pass pre-reform woukd fail. If a pass is a grade 5 and a 4 isn't good enough there's a vast swathe of middling/lower ability pupils who get let down and the system falls apart with an overwhelming number of students needing to do retakes.

My dd needed at least 8 GCSE’s at grade 6 or more for a levels

She's done amazing you have every right to br proud of her.

And mine needed 7 at grade 4. As PP have evidenced, some sixth forms offer A levels to those with 4 at grade 4. Not every school has the same requirements, thankfully.

That would pretty much wipe my 6th form out. And yet they go on to get good A level grades and 1st choice university.

4s classed as a pass. However, it wouldn't be enough to get into my local sixth form. English and Maths need to be a minimum of 5, certain subjects require a 6+ or 7+.

I think people are getting obsessed with “pass / not pass” or the numbers themselves, without really understanding what they mean.

A 4 in maths means a 16 year old is struggling to understand basic fractions / percentages.

That’s a pretty huge life skill for people to be so blasé about someone not having.

I honestly think that’s mad. Hopefully there were other options locally. DDs college gets very high numbers into Oxbridge, 53 this year, and lets kids into arts and hums on 4s, just seems so unnecessary to have such a high entry bar. Obviously it’s unlikely the kids with the Oxbridge places got 4s, but there’s no streaming, the classes all have a mix of kids.

What sort of area do you live in? Do you live in one where the best school has a 50 percent pass rate for English and maths and the other schools less than that?

No it doesn't! Have you looked at a foundation paper (in which you need 75%+ for a 5)?