Diversity schemes for young people - mixed race child.

[Florencesndzebedee]

I have a dc who is currently an undergraduate. I am mixed race, my dh is white. Dc is fair skinned but, through my heritage, also has black heritage (my dad is from the Caribbean).

The landscape is tough at the moment getting work placements/internships but some of these schemes are open to dc of black heritage only. My dc is reluctant to apply as he said he’d feel like a fraud, purely on looks - he looks like he might be Spanish or Greek but has blue eyes. The criteria are quite vague other than under represented people )within the organisation) of black/african /Caribbean heritage. I feel like he is entitled to apply and these schemes would give him more options.

Does anyone have any experience of these particular schemes or how they select?

Oh no. Please don't recommend those books. Unfortunately they're used to make every white person believe they're a closet racist and it's divisive and detrimental. "White fragility" is an insulting title to start with.

If we are to aim for equality (which I genuinely believe most of us want and strive for ) books like that do nothing but cause more division.

He might meet the criteria but it’s about how he identifies at the end of the day and whether he recognises or relates to the challenges the programme is trying to tackle.

Have you read them?

Thanks for your speedy response! I wonder if you have anything else you can recommend, though appreciate many books that seem to nail it at the time don’t tend to age well.

If he's eligible, he should do it! In a few years, no one will know or remember how he got into the industry.

This is a really good point but I can understand why he’d feel disingenuous in his application if he doesn’t identify with the intended community.

Positive action is different to positive discrimination. This won't be someone getting a job because of their skin colour as that is illegal in the UK (unless a genuine occupational requirement). It will be an opportunity to get work experience that means more people from black backgrounds can apply for jobs in this field in the future. Those going through the scheme would still have to meet the criteria for the job if any vacancy came up. They would still be hired on their merits.

I've read the reviews and read segments of them online. The reviews are balanced and well written and include some from reputable critics. I feel they're divisive.

So no. Thought not. Perhaps there is some literature you could recommend that might support your version of equality?

I don't have any book recommendations.

But I do recommend living by simple virtues "treat others as you'd be expected to be trea9ted yourself "

"Don't rock my boat and I won't rock yours "

"Treat everyone with respect and courtesy. Like them until they give you reason not to "

I do think we over analyse (sorry but particularly in middle class circles ) and it promotes division. But because it sounds insightful and clever : we assume it's the correct way.

It's ridiculous isn't it? This boy may qualify for these schemes on account of being 1/4 black even if most people don't see the black in him when they look at him. I was watching a man interviewed on TV last week who appeared completely white to me and it was only when he started talking about his black heritage (1 grandparent) that I looked at him differently and thought 'Oh yes, I can ever-so-slightly see it now that I know he's 1/4 black, but I wouldn't otherwise have noticed.'

I know two siblings who are 1/4 black. One of them looks very noticably mixed race, or would even pass as a fully black person of fairly lightish complexion. I'd say most people would guess him to be half black.

His brother looks not even the tiniest bit black. Very fair skin, strawberry blonde hair (curly but exceptionally so) and blue eyes.

If you believe that 'being black' holds a person back because of institutional racism then surely it hasn't held these white passing people back in the slightest and they've probably benefited from so-called white privilege if that exists.

And of course it's not surprising so many black-identifying people 'pass' as white, when they are 3 times genetically whiter than black.

So are we going to start vetting applicants for these schemes based on their skin tone alone and deciding (if they are part black) whether they look black enough? Because that's a hideous and incredibly regressive thing to do.

My brothers could apply and be equally black genetically. One could be accepted and the other not.

‘I can assure you that encouraging diversity by any means necessary is beneficial for any institution or organisation’

…the problem summed up in one sentence.

Sorry but you are just plain ignorant if you think wishy washy sentiments are enough to erase centuries of systemic racism.
I shan't repeat what I said earlier lest it get deleted again, but I stand by it.

Here comes the insult flinging again...

If you wish to add some legitimacy to your views you are free to back them up with anything at all. As it stands you are dismissing measurable inequality based on nothing at all. That is deliberate ignorance.

You've just called me "ignorant".

I stand by my simple virtues. The simplest and most obvious answer is usually the correct one.

So, you're saying that you've got to be extremely educated in order to not be racist.

Well let's look at people that have no concept of racism and manage to not be racist :
-young children
-People with limited intellectual capability such as those with learning difficulties or downs syndrome.

Have they read your books ?

This is just a small twist on ‘you’re racist if you disagree with me’. That is deliberate ignorance and as I’m sure you’ve noticed doesn’t work anymore in shutting down discussion.

Your principles don't equal equality. I'm not sure why you're pretending not to grasp that. Even if you yourself were lovely and truly treated everyone equally, it still does not mean that equality has been achieved. Virtues are great, everyone should treat everyone nicely - but they do not and are not tackling systemic inequality. Expecting everyone to just be nice doesn't work.
Young children are measurably prejudiced. Not deliberately, and not with the hate that adults can be, but they are from babyhood. I'm not aware of any research on those with intellectual disabilities so I shan't comment on that.

You can't comment because you know it's true: the least educated are usually the least racist. They genuinely treat people "all the same". Positive discrimination can be as harmful as outright discrimination.

Babies do not favour white skin. Babies look for their mother. If baby Is black : probably looking for a black mummy figure. If baby is white : probably looking for a white mummy figure.

If you could try to make me understand how that makes them inherently biased towards white people I'd be happy to hear it?

But what I can tell you with absolute conviction is: it won't be due to racism.

Thankyou for saying this. I find it really disheartening to have to keep proving I'm not racist for simply wanting equality (by using simple everyday virtues) because otherwise, if we take that and other posters views that you have to have read a thousand books and deeply understand systemic racism from decades gone by to really be non racist, then we're saying only the clever people can be non racist. And that's simply not true as evidenced by babies, toddlers, young children, people with downs syndrome, intellectual disability etc etc .

But then I was told babies can display racism..... (They haven't read the books)

If you re read today's post exchange from us. Look how many times I've insulted you? And look how many times you've insulted me .

You wanting equality via simple virtues does not make it so. If you truly cared about equality you would acknowledge that not everyone wants to live that way and some people must be forced to. Nice ideas don't equate to an equal society. You're so blinkered if you won't consider this.
Again, I didn't say babies are racist. I said babies display racial prejudice. It isn't the same thing.

You can report the insults. They will be removed.
I do note that plenty of your comments have also been deleted....

Or ask babies and people with downs syndrome how they manage to not be racist ?

The simplest answer and usually the most obvious one is usually the right one.

Earlier on yes. From 2 days ago. I admit I was acting in frustration and probably hasn't worded my posts very maturely.

I've not done that since.