Diversity schemes for young people - mixed race child.

[Florencesndzebedee]

I have a dc who is currently an undergraduate. I am mixed race, my dh is white. Dc is fair skinned but, through my heritage, also has black heritage (my dad is from the Caribbean).

The landscape is tough at the moment getting work placements/internships but some of these schemes are open to dc of black heritage only. My dc is reluctant to apply as he said he’d feel like a fraud, purely on looks - he looks like he might be Spanish or Greek but has blue eyes. The criteria are quite vague other than under represented people )within the organisation) of black/african /Caribbean heritage. I feel like he is entitled to apply and these schemes would give him more options.

Does anyone have any experience of these particular schemes or how they select?

I don't think white people are over represented. Obviously there will be variation amongst different sectors. But if we look at sectors like TV and advertising then POC are vastly over represented and make up nearly 17% of the workforce. Considering the only make up less than 4% of the general population there's a likely chance that's due to racist hiring practices to make them look good.

Can you show any evidence of what you claim as so far no ones actually produced any despite many claims that it exists.

I don't think there is any difference inately in terms of how hard people work. There have been credible studies done into attributes such as intelligence by people like Thomas Sowell (who is a black man) that are very interesting but maybe a bit too controversial to argue about on here.

It doesnt matter what he looks like, he is Carribean. And he meets the criteria, his skin and eye colour is irrelevant.

I hope he applies and wish him luck

Sectors where POC are over represented don't operate schemes to increase their representation. The schemes operate in sectors where under representation has been identified. When assessing if a sector is representative, it takes into account the percentage of the population who are from that group.
I can't provide evidence of the under representation being addressed by the scheme OP is referring to, because I don't know what the scheme is. But, say for the sake of argument, its the judiciary. 4% of the UK identify as black. 1% of judges are black, so thats evidence of under representation in that sector.

I think @RainbowBrighite called it well.

DH is mixed race Afro Caribbean, and has a similar skin tone to Jude Bellingham and has suffered discrimination- ethnic minorities are under represented in his industry.

SIL and DNephews all have the same skin colour as DH. DS and DNiece are both blonde and blue eyed.

I’ve seen myself that DNephews are treated differently from DS/DNiece due to skin colour; so if I’m brutally honest I feel these sort of schemes would benefit them more but equally it’s not wrong for DS or DNiece to apply as they are mixed race but they look different.

It’s a really tricky one.

Where on earth have you pulled those figures from? Are they for on screen talent? They definitely aren't for behind the camera in TV which is still 'hideously white' and a part of why the industry has had to run schemes like this in recent years, to help build a more diverse workforce.

I’d say he is fully entitled to apply as he is of mixed heritage - it doesn’t matter to what degree….but you have to listen to his views on this. If it makes him feel uncomfortable then he shouldn’t do it. But these schemes are often about bringing more diverse views and perspectives into a workplace and his experiences growing up with a mixed race parent and black grandparents will very likely give him a different outlook on lots of issues that are very relevant and useful in companies lacking a diverse workforce. If you explain it to him like that he may see the value he can bring in that respect and appreciate how he qualifies for such a scheme. It’s not just about having faced discrimination it’s about being able to contribute something a firm might not currently have.

According to the 2021 census, around 18% of the UK population are POC. So if your figure of "nearly 17% of the workforce" (however that is defined) is correct, they are not vastly over-represented at all. Actually, that would suggest that they are slightly underrepresented, although not massively so. The ratios in some sectors will obviously be much worse.

And then, of course, there is an additional layer of complexity which relates not only to the overall number of POC in any given sector relative to the population as a whole, but also the rate at which they are able to progress and reach comparable levels of success and seniority etc. We would need to analyse those stats to understand the extent of equality that has been achieved.

Hmm I've often pondered this myself as I think my family sounds similar to you in that I have a black Caribbean parent and a white parent so consider myself mixed race. My husband is white and my children also look kind of "Mediterranean" but I've never really thought of them as mixed race and I just tick white British on the forms. I think alot of it comes down to self identity and it depends on the specific criteria too as it's normally just of afro-carribbean heritage but doesn't specify how far that heritage needs to go back. Maybe make an informal enquiry before applying to find out more about the criteria? Tricky to navigate it all isn't it as you don't want him to feel awkward once he's there

They exist for a reason. There are so few black men from African heritage in some professions where it would be useful to have them eg law.

You won't find many non-white heavy metal bands.

Is that because of racial discrimination? Unlikely. These things are not always down to evil 'whitey'.

I suspect that class in the UK has more effect on life chances than colour, and that we import race issues from the U.S., where race does indeed seem to be a big issue.

Colour is an easy thing to identify (great for quotas), unlike class, but is it really meaningful in the UK as an indicator of diversity?

You're right it's just one factor and there's even big disparity in outcomes for different black students eg from African families vs from Caribbean, and that seems to be partly cultural and partly financial from what I've read. How related that is to epigenetics and generational trauma etc is quite interesting too.

Class is also a factor that should be considered in diversity.

Why would it be useful or otherwise to have more black men in law. Why would skin colour make any difference?

Sorry.... What type of internship is only open to you if you are a certain colour ? What fresh hell is this ?

But what if he got an interview, has psyched himself up knowing he was allowed to apply with his heritage and then not get anywhere after that because he doesn’t fit the bill?

It’s a very slippery path to be honest.

Hideously white? As opposed to female Olympic marathon runners, is that all hideously black? Please keep any racist comments to yourself they don't belong on here.

I completely and utterly agree with you. It's divisive.

And the people that want this are not looking for equality (we have that. Full stop. In the UK we have equality) maybe not elsewhere on the globe. But we certainly have it here. They are looking to exchange oppressed and oppresser

There should be no oppressed and oppresser. Equality means stop the fucking division games. It's not done many favours has it ?

Ps for anyone who dares: take a look at blackmumsnetters and Muslim Mumsnetters. See how white people as a collective race are thought of.

Muslim Mumsnetters isn't too hostile of white people, granted. But there are threads detailing how oral sex is "disgusting and immoral" and shaming some person who partakes (fellow Muslim).

Virtue signalling white people just have no clue what they're talking about. Stop dividing groups, start uniting us all. Division breeds tribalism. Tribalism breeds war.

The system of everyone applying as individuals and being selected based on merit isn't working though, is it? Unless you believe white middle class males are the most intelligent, skilled, capable, hardworking demographic of the UK population, and this is why they are over represented in the most powerful and highest earning roles in our society. Do you believe this? Or do you allow for the possibility there's more at play than individual merit?

It's a very well known quote about the industry, said by then BBC Director General, Greg Dyke, about 20 years ago.
It's still quoted now because the industry still has a long way to go at reflecting the viewers it makes programmes for. Senior roles especially are still overwhelmingly populated by straight, white, able bodied, middle class men, who went to private schools.
It's not racist for me to acknowledge that despite some improvement in the last 5 years, if you look around most crews, most edits, most production offices, on the whole you are seeing a sea of white faces.

Do you think its useful to have the best possible people in law? Do you believe that the best possible people are disproportionately likely to be white?
Unless you answer yes, to both these questions then the reason for encouraging people from other groups into the profession should be obvious.

My DD is similar to your son in heritage and looks. I think it would be awkward once your son got to interview at the company if the interviewer had been interviewing other candidates under the same scheme. He also hasn’t really experienced racism in the same way as some of the other candidates would have — though I’m sure he has experienced some. But I think your son is right.