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Thread 16: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

1000 replies

DisappointedReader · 19/08/2025 21:07

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The 14 Observer items currently available on their online 'The real Salt Path' page: The real Salt Path | The Observer

More from The Observer:
‘Hope is extinguished’: CBD patients respond to Salt Path...
The real Salt Path | The Observer (The Slow Newscast)
I will link to two more Observer videos in the first post of this thread.

The Observer YouTube Channel: The Observer UK - YouTube

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: Raynor Winn

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12

Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386458-thread-13-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5388981-thread-14-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently a number of interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for fifteen very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Yes, it really is Thread 16.

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

Penniless and homeless, the Winns found fame and fortune with the story of their 630-mile walk to salvation. We can reveal that the truth behind it is ve...

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-real-salt-path-how-the-couple-behind-a-bestseller-left-a-trail-of-debt-and-deceit

OP posts:
Thread gallery
53
Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 26/08/2025 11:37

PullTheBricksDown · 26/08/2025 11:34

Of course reading someone's state of health from a photo is problematic. I will say though that while Moth isn't chunky here, neither does he have the gaunt frame I would expect of someone who's been doing a gruelling long distance walk on a diet of noodles, tea and the occasional stolen fudge bar.

Plus, yet again, he's posing in a way that indicates he's physically flexible. If he were genuinely suffering, I would have expected him to be actually sitting down, either on the rock or with his back against it, not doing the 'one knee under chin, look how high I can get my leg' pose.

crossedlines · 26/08/2025 11:37

YarrowYarrow · 26/08/2025 11:23

Thanks for the link, @TheBrandyPath.

There's a reason The Salt Path isn't included in that essay, and I think it's because it's simply not sophisticated enough as a piece of writing. (I've not read the Donaldson book, but have read quite a lot of Kathleen Jamie's essays, which are excellent, and The Outrun.)

I think TSP doesn't reflect on itself as nature writing, or think about what 'nature' might actually be, or how you might right about it without distorting it to be some kind of resource for you, or a reflection of your concerns, and how the human and non-human relate.

The author quotes someone else (can't find the quotation now) as saying

“[t]he real danger is that nature writing becomes a literature of consolation that distracts us from the truth of our fallen countryside, or—just as bad—that it becomes a space for us to talk to ourselves about ourselves, with nature relegated to the background as an attractive green wash”

I think this is pretty much what TSP does -- nature is an uninterrogated, consoling greenwash, an alternative to the glumwashing of SW's relationship with almost all the people she meets. She not only appropriates nature, she instrumentalises it. She never seems to ask herself what nature is, or how it relates to humans or human culture.

That essay references a Kathleen Jamie essay about her mother's death, in which KJ, grieving, acknowledges that this is a natural event, nature taking its course, but struggles to accept this, even as she also examines specimens in a pathology lab, as she waits for her mother to die. After the funeral she goes for a walk and says that nature had gone back to its usual place, fields and trees etc, because it's too difficult for most of us to recognise that we, cancer, bacteria, decaying etc are just as much 'nature' as birds or trees. That we are also animals subject to natural processes is a knowledge that's hard to keep uppermost in our minds.

That's not a question that even occurs to SW as she constructs nature as a form of 'cure' for what is going wrong in Moth's body (which is, of course, 'nature', too).

(ETA. Sorry, had to cut out a chunk at the start because of an accidental strike-through which wouldn't let me correct it. I just said that there are a couple of errors in the essay, understandably as the author seems to be Turkish and at a Turkish university and may not have much knowledge of the UK.)

Edited

Excellent post. I agree entirely. There’s no real depth, no analysis, exploration or questioning. SW just waxes lyrical about nature healing Moth.

and your point about the alternative to SW’s glumwashing is spot on too. For SW, other people are the enemy, out to judge/reject her, while nature is the friend. It’s so crass, this unquestioning, simplifying positioning of the life going on around them.

HatStickBoots · 26/08/2025 11:48

SimoArmo · 26/08/2025 10:05

Yes,,I'm used to a haar as well. But it never seems salty like the pp says. Maybe I've simply got so used to it so it doesn't register. Lots of sea smells like seaweed etc. But can't say I've ever smelled or tasted salt in the air. I'd have thought salt doesn't stay in evaporating sea water when forming a vapour. Maybe it's a nuanced thing about how we perceive things differently.

Edited

I don’t think I’m using the correct terminology, forgive me. My Dp doesn’t think it’s salt hanging in the air above the water on a hot day. It probably is the vapour as you say. When the sun is shining through it, it looks amazing.

candycane222 · 26/08/2025 12:16

YarrowYarrow · 26/08/2025 11:23

Thanks for the link, @TheBrandyPath.

There's a reason The Salt Path isn't included in that essay, and I think it's because it's simply not sophisticated enough as a piece of writing. (I've not read the Donaldson book, but have read quite a lot of Kathleen Jamie's essays, which are excellent, and The Outrun.)

I think TSP doesn't reflect on itself as nature writing, or think about what 'nature' might actually be, or how you might right about it without distorting it to be some kind of resource for you, or a reflection of your concerns, and how the human and non-human relate.

The author quotes someone else (can't find the quotation now) as saying

“[t]he real danger is that nature writing becomes a literature of consolation that distracts us from the truth of our fallen countryside, or—just as bad—that it becomes a space for us to talk to ourselves about ourselves, with nature relegated to the background as an attractive green wash”

I think this is pretty much what TSP does -- nature is an uninterrogated, consoling greenwash, an alternative to the glumwashing of SW's relationship with almost all the people she meets. She not only appropriates nature, she instrumentalises it. She never seems to ask herself what nature is, or how it relates to humans or human culture.

That essay references a Kathleen Jamie essay about her mother's death, in which KJ, grieving, acknowledges that this is a natural event, nature taking its course, but struggles to accept this, even as she also examines specimens in a pathology lab, as she waits for her mother to die. After the funeral she goes for a walk and says that nature had gone back to its usual place, fields and trees etc, because it's too difficult for most of us to recognise that we, cancer, bacteria, decaying etc are just as much 'nature' as birds or trees. That we are also animals subject to natural processes is a knowledge that's hard to keep uppermost in our minds.

That's not a question that even occurs to SW as she constructs nature as a form of 'cure' for what is going wrong in Moth's body (which is, of course, 'nature', too).

(ETA. Sorry, had to cut out a chunk at the start because of an accidental strike-through which wouldn't let me correct it. I just said that there are a couple of errors in the essay, understandably as the author seems to be Turkish and at a Turkish university and may not have much knowledge of the UK.)

Edited

This is very well put - thanks for finding the excerpt (and curse the dashes that probably stuck you with that strike-through

MistMountain · 26/08/2025 12:20

crossedlines · 26/08/2025 11:37

Excellent post. I agree entirely. There’s no real depth, no analysis, exploration or questioning. SW just waxes lyrical about nature healing Moth.

and your point about the alternative to SW’s glumwashing is spot on too. For SW, other people are the enemy, out to judge/reject her, while nature is the friend. It’s so crass, this unquestioning, simplifying positioning of the life going on around them.

Absolutely agree. I invested in TSP to gain insight into a (allegedly dying) man's excavation of himself ( albeit through SW's eyes). But there was no insight. Nothing.

YarrowYarrow · 26/08/2025 12:23

candycane222 · 26/08/2025 12:16

This is very well put - thanks for finding the excerpt (and curse the dashes that probably stuck you with that strike-through

I am addicted to dashes, but the odd thing is that I went back and took out the dashes when editing the post after I'd first posted it, but the strikethrough stayed, although the dashes that had caused it were gone.

A mystery almost as enduring as where were the Walkers in 2014, and how does Tim get his hair so silvery and vertical? Is there a shampoo endorsement in his future? SW could do knitwear.

Cornishwafer · 26/08/2025 12:32

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 26/08/2025 11:37

Plus, yet again, he's posing in a way that indicates he's physically flexible. If he were genuinely suffering, I would have expected him to be actually sitting down, either on the rock or with his back against it, not doing the 'one knee under chin, look how high I can get my leg' pose.

I don't doubt Moth is unwell in some way...but I do wonder just how unwell...I'm a fair bit younger than he is, view myself as quite healthy and he looks in ruder health than myself and many people I know...especially with his squatting etc.

A bit callous, and obviously no one wishes ill health on him, but if Moth took a turn for the worse, I wonder if this would, in the eyes of the public, largely erase any lies / crimes Sally had committed.

MistMountain · 26/08/2025 12:39

I might be late to the party today but there's a brilliant piece in The Literary Hub today by Polly Atkin 'On Raynor Winn's Fabricated Memoir'. Sorry I don't know how to link. It is an excellent article.

MistMountain · 26/08/2025 12:58

Thank you! I think it is spot on - about the publisher's role in it all too.

TheBrandyPath · 26/08/2025 13:05

MistMountain · 26/08/2025 12:58

Thank you! I think it is spot on - about the publisher's role in it all too.

Oh thank you so much - that is what I wanted to hear from someone re: the publishing. At last someone coming out and saying these things. So powerfully sets out some of the themes we have been sharing.

PullTheBricksDown · 26/08/2025 13:16

This is brilliant and absolutely spot on about the way only inspirational healing-focused stories of chronic illness are allowed. Thank you Polly Atkin and @MistMountain @WhoDaresWinns for sharing.

I've said before that Moth's ricocheting between 'can't go on, going to die right now' and 'incredible recovery, must be totally healed' is very reminiscent of the bad days and good days experience of chronic illness. After each, the illness is still there but not necessarily reaching a dramatic peak. I don't think the WWs seem able to process that, and it seems like publishing as a whole isn't keen on it either.

crossedlines · 26/08/2025 13:20

Well done to Polly Atkin to point out that what SW writes is akin to victim- blaming. ‘Still unwell/ disabled? You obviously haven’t walked far enough/ been in touch with nature enough’

LetsBeSensible · 26/08/2025 13:41

An excellent article.
”Everyone who has been moved by this story needs to reflect on why, and what this tells them about their own relationship with illness and disability…”

WhoDaresWinns · 26/08/2025 13:41

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at authors request

DisappointedReader · 26/08/2025 13:56

PM for you @WhoDaresWinns

OP posts:
cricketandwhodunnits · 26/08/2025 14:07

PullTheBricksDown · 26/08/2025 13:16

This is brilliant and absolutely spot on about the way only inspirational healing-focused stories of chronic illness are allowed. Thank you Polly Atkin and @MistMountain @WhoDaresWinns for sharing.

I've said before that Moth's ricocheting between 'can't go on, going to die right now' and 'incredible recovery, must be totally healed' is very reminiscent of the bad days and good days experience of chronic illness. After each, the illness is still there but not necessarily reaching a dramatic peak. I don't think the WWs seem able to process that, and it seems like publishing as a whole isn't keen on it either.

I suddenly thought of something (that should have been obvious?) as I read the first few paragraphs of this excellent article - is it possible that The Secret Garden has a lot to answer for? Taught us that positive relationships with nature, and a positive attitude, will cure everything.

SimoArmo · 26/08/2025 14:23

YarrowYarrow · 26/08/2025 11:23

Thanks for the link, @TheBrandyPath.

There's a reason The Salt Path isn't included in that essay, and I think it's because it's simply not sophisticated enough as a piece of writing. (I've not read the Donaldson book, but have read quite a lot of Kathleen Jamie's essays, which are excellent, and The Outrun.)

I think TSP doesn't reflect on itself as nature writing, or think about what 'nature' might actually be, or how you might right about it without distorting it to be some kind of resource for you, or a reflection of your concerns, and how the human and non-human relate.

The author quotes someone else (can't find the quotation now) as saying

“[t]he real danger is that nature writing becomes a literature of consolation that distracts us from the truth of our fallen countryside, or—just as bad—that it becomes a space for us to talk to ourselves about ourselves, with nature relegated to the background as an attractive green wash”

I think this is pretty much what TSP does -- nature is an uninterrogated, consoling greenwash, an alternative to the glumwashing of SW's relationship with almost all the people she meets. She not only appropriates nature, she instrumentalises it. She never seems to ask herself what nature is, or how it relates to humans or human culture.

That essay references a Kathleen Jamie essay about her mother's death, in which KJ, grieving, acknowledges that this is a natural event, nature taking its course, but struggles to accept this, even as she also examines specimens in a pathology lab, as she waits for her mother to die. After the funeral she goes for a walk and says that nature had gone back to its usual place, fields and trees etc, because it's too difficult for most of us to recognise that we, cancer, bacteria, decaying etc are just as much 'nature' as birds or trees. That we are also animals subject to natural processes is a knowledge that's hard to keep uppermost in our minds.

That's not a question that even occurs to SW as she constructs nature as a form of 'cure' for what is going wrong in Moth's body (which is, of course, 'nature', too).

(ETA. Sorry, had to cut out a chunk at the start because of an accidental strike-through which wouldn't let me correct it. I just said that there are a couple of errors in the essay, understandably as the author seems to be Turkish and at a Turkish university and may not have much knowledge of the UK.)

Edited

I agree. Though I think in interviews RW does sometimes talk about her awareness of being part of nature/part of the whole ecosystem/us being animals, which could demonstrate some kind of insightfulness. I did actually think TSP included something along these lines but couldn't find it in a search of various terms. All I found were the excerpts below, which are largely Winn-centric and rather naval gazey:

As a child I was sent to the field to collect a ewe and her newborn lamb, to carry the lamb for the ewe to follow, to bring them both safely to the shelter; I picked the lamb up but realized the ewe was about to give birth to a second. So I waited, lying on my back in the wet spring grass, clouds rushing overhead, the ewe only feet away, giving birth, as the first lamb found its feet. I knew then that I was one with everything, the worms in the soil, clouds in the sky; I was part of it all, within everything, and everything was within my child’s head. The wild was never something to fear or hide from. It was my safe place, the thing I ran to.


We left the water, shivering but silent, touched by an almost imperceptible sense of belonging, to sleep between the sea and the sky, dry but salted.


A new season had crept into me, a softer season of acceptance. Burnt in by the sun, driven in by the storms. I could feel the sky, the earth, the water and revel in being part of the elements without a chasm of pain opening at the thought of the loss of our place within it all. I was a part of the whole. I didn’t need to own a patch of land to make that so. I could stand in the wind and I was the wind, the rain, the sea; it was all me, and I was nothing within it. The core of me wasn’t lost. Translucent, elusive, but there and growing stronger with every headland.

SimoArmo · 26/08/2025 14:37

WhoDaresWinns · 26/08/2025 09:34

Not sure where or when this photo of Moth was taken but I came across it recently. Its his blue bandana outfit so possibly the end of the LL walk.

Edited

Same clothes as the "crouching in a beach den" photo near Peppercombe/pregabalin withdrawal episode, but minus the hat. I looked at that again and looks as if the bandana is under his hat. I think it's also a different bandana than the one in more recent photos which has more obvious white patternation. Looks more like the one he was wearing on the Porlock Weir wall.

So maybe this was near Peppercombe? Just need to identify the wreck he's on.

TheBrandyPath · 26/08/2025 14:54

@SimoArmo I agree. Though I think in interviews RW does sometimes talk about her awareness of being part of nature/part of the whole ecosystem/us being animals, which could demonstrate some kind of insightfulness.

I'm unable to provide the link but I did hear SalRay talking about her (what was to be) soon to be published book. It sounded to me like another pick'n'mix appropriation.

She was saying that she is not religious. She then talked about nature in the manner of Sufism (Islamic mysticism). She says it is to do with Being, etc.....

SimoArmo · 26/08/2025 15:08

WhoDaresWinns · 26/08/2025 09:34

Not sure where or when this photo of Moth was taken but I came across it recently. Its his blue bandana outfit so possibly the end of the LL walk.

Edited

Found the location...Northcott mouth beach, between Duckpool and Bude. Fits in with other known photos, timewise.

suxxesphoto.com/hartland-devon-photography/

PassOnTheCondimentRoad · 26/08/2025 15:08

WhoDaresWinns · 26/08/2025 09:34

Not sure where or when this photo of Moth was taken but I came across it recently. Its his blue bandana outfit so possibly the end of the LL walk.

Edited

It looks to me like this one at Bude.

Thread 16: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?
PassOnTheCondimentRoad · 26/08/2025 15:09

Snap!

SimoArmo · 26/08/2025 15:09

SimoArmo · 26/08/2025 15:08

Found the location...Northcott mouth beach, between Duckpool and Bude. Fits in with other known photos, timewise.

suxxesphoto.com/hartland-devon-photography/

...

Thread 16: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?
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