Didn’t get job

[tiredsotired6]

I’ve been working as a temp for one company for over a year. They’ve been very happy with my work, giving me a lot of good feedback. A few people (including the manager) have said they would really like me to be on permanent staff as I do a great job.

Anyway, a few months ago a perm role came up, which was essentially my role to the letter. Having had the good feedback I decided to apply as felt I had a very good chance.

As I’m sure you’ve already guessed, I didn’t get the job. I’m now feeling like my confidence has been shot and my manager was just leading me on.

The new person has now started and seems fine but no better than me at the job. Worse still, I’ve been asked to help them out if they have any questions about how to do the job that I’ve been doing for over a year.

The result is that a job I used to look forward to every day has now left me feeling deflated and upset. I now dread work and generally just feel my confidence has been shattered.

AIBU and WWYD?

It’s an interviewer’s skill and responsibility to identify bullshit and ask probing follow ups to verify and evidence what the candidate is saying. And it’s not that hard to be honest.

where a lot of internal candidates go wrong is assuming the job is theirs already and assuming I will take account of prior knowledge in their interview. They don't sell themselves and their experience so I can't score it.

This!

I understand your disappointment but diminishing the whole process to a box ticking exercise, does show a lack of appreciatIon/understanding of the process. A process of which you were better placed to understand than the external candidate. No one owed you this position and there’s a good chance that the manager who delivered your positive feedback meant what they said. The criteria for hiring temp vs permanent hires can be very different. It would have been unfair for the external candidate to have been scored on prior knowledge.

Again, your disappointed is totally understandable but don’t let your disappointment make you bitter. Get as much feedback as possible so that you are better prepared for future opportunities. Don’t be deflated, you did nothing wrong, lick your wounds and onwards and upwards.

Seems to me they are not interviews they’re auditions and everyone needs to be an actor to get the role. Only difference is those who aren’t good enough actors no longer even have the luxury of waiting on tables.

@BunnyLake

but ask me to relay a scenario where I overcame a challenge or where do I see myself in five years I go blank and start to babble even if I’ve rehearsed it, because I know these questions are coming and they put me on edge

Why not make notes and take them into the interview?
That’s what I’ve done for the competency part of the interview process.

Are they ok with you reading from notes about these things?

Exactly. Even if the role has nothing to do with the ability (or lack thereof) to act.

These box-ticking interviews (and they are exactly that, people need to stop kidding themselves that they’re anything else) that completely ignore the observable track record of an internal candidate must end of with some rubbish hires that just waste the organisation time and money (but presumably keep the recruiting grifters in a job).

Surely with an internal candidate who is acknowledged by their manager to be doing an excellent job should not be asked the same questions as external strangers. For a start it would be ridiculous and a waste of time as you ‘go through the motions’ in the pretence that they’re in the same situation as the externals. If by common consent, they’re clearly already doing the job very well then surely further, probing or ‘extending’ questions should be asked.

I can understand how it would be very awkward for the internal candidate to participate in the charade of being just a random applicant.

Obviously if they’re an internal candidate who isn’t up to scratch that’s different.

I would agree with you there! It is indeed the job of the interviewer.

And I’ve seen on more than one occasion that this hasn’t been the case. I had the bad luck to work with a deputy head in a school who openly admitted she had bullshitted in the interview. She was a nightmare and caused real harm for the year she was in post.

And that’s not the only experience I’ve had where the rest of the team is left baffled by the choice of the interview panel.

Look you can call it a charade or a box ticking exercise but my organisation had around 600 applications for an apprentice level job and we regularly get 200 for roles in my team. There has to be a fair process and you either get on with it or not. All I can tell you is if you choose not to make the most of your interview slot that's up to you but your competition will.

I’d expect if you work in a school you probably do see some weird interviewing, but that’s not normal in more functional organisations

I get for some things they work well but not when the job doesn’t need certain questions. Why ask a candidate for a part time receptionist job in an old people’s home where they see themselves in five year’s time. As a full time receptionist? As one of the residents? As running the whole thing? It’s a two day a week receptionist job at pretty much minimum wage.

Whatever questions I ask will link to the published criteria and be for a purpose. I tailor them for each position. I invest a lot of time in making it as positive experience as possible but I won't compromise my standards because I know a person. That would be deeply unfair. I imagine justifying my decision in court every time because that's where I might end up. It's not easy recruiting properly and I avoid it where possible these days as it eats my time but my track record is excellent

I still have no idea why a two day a week receptionist would be asked where they see themselves in five year’s time.

Nor me but it's just possible that it wasn't me doing that particular interview

Yes. There’s an idea around that everyone and every job should show ambition but in many roles this just isn’t relevant and in fact - you need just the opposite. Sometimes what’s required is a steady, efficient person who works to a high standard and gets on with other colleagues. Many receptionist jobs are like this - you almost want the candidate NOT to be ambitious, but to be happy in their role and do it well.

Theres a lot of pretentiousness in recruitment sometimes!

Oh why couldn’t you have interviewed me, sigh. You get it!

I guess what is most irritating is that - does the law require that every post be available for open competition? Once, simple promotion was the norm and then the lower, recently-vacated post was advertised. It seems expensive, time-consuming and possibly unfair to both internal and external candidates, raising hopes and causing undue stress where it could be avoided.

But the key is to take that problem, or complaint, and find a solution to it within the confines of the requirement to do the interview.
You can’t change the interview process, so you have to play the game.

i would think, rather than ruminating on it, there are 2 options for this question:
-be honest
-make something up.

if you’re honest, you need to position your response so it doesn’t sound rude or jarring.

So- not “I don’t want to do anything else. Isn’t it obvious I don’t have any ambition because I’m applying for such a crap job?”
but
”I’m really interested in this opportunity, and would really like to focus in the short and medium term on learning as much and I can about the role and company and take pride in becoming an expert on that.
When I’ve achieved that I would absolutely reassses my longer term plan and the opportunities available at this organisation”

or, make something up

”I am really interested in paper so looking forward to the exposure of working in a paper company. I’m really open to opportunities that might come my way and in the longer term would really like to get some team leader experience or work on a project”

these are impressive, non offensive responses that you can parrot out.
Before you jump in saying how fake they are and how they won’t get them the right person for the job also consider this isn’t a deal breaker question anyway.

Neither of these responses above will lose you the job. You’re not committing to anything, you’re not losing anything. They answer the question.
What might lose you the job is umming, ahhing, stuttering, giving fluffy unconfident responses

When it comes to working life you can’t just say whatever you fancy. Truth tell in your private life of you like, but you have to adapt to different environments to know what’s appropriate.

And let’s be honest, most people will. Most people want a good employer and a good job. When it comes to doing it formally in an unnatural environment like an interview people massively overthink it. It’s probably because it’s hard to be confident in that environment

Ooh I’m going to recite that at my next part time low paid job interview, thanks 👍 if I don’t stumble all over it trying to get it sounding ‘natural’ 😁

That could have been me!

I had a temporary member of staff apply for a permanent role 3 times. The first time I think she just assumed she would get the role and did absolutely no interview prep at all. In fact she failed to answer some very basic questions. In our company an interview includes 2 managers, one from an unrelated team so to keep the hiring process fair and unbiased. The other manager was amazed that I’d kept her on as a temp for so long as from her answers it sounded like she didn’t have a clue what the job entailed. I gave some really clear and honest feedback. Told her how much she was valued and encouraged her to apply again when another role came up. The same thing happened twice more even though both times I really emphasised how important the interview was. She already had an advantage as she knew what questions we were going to ask. Eventually she left as she secured a permanent role at another company.

I can understand how it would be very awkward for the internal candidate to participate in the charade of being just a random applicant.

This. Plus external candidates have a big advantage in that they can embellish and lie and the interviewer will be none the wiser. That’s not possible when you’ve been working alongside the interviewer for a year.

That’s an interesting point. Would those interviewers on this thread who say they wouldn’t take into account anything that wasn’t said in the interview - how would they react if the interviewee made a claim that the interviewer knew to be false but couldn’t acknowledge as they’re ignoring having worked with that person?

What a total nonsense.

It's not a charade though. They have to ask questions and give you the same time to describe situations that relate to your skills and knowledge as external applicants.
If you fail to highlight your enthusiasm, excellent time-keeping, meticulous record keeping [add in as relevant] etc. because you think they know this, the gaps don't count for anything at interview.
Otherwise, in filling in gaps you have left unsaid, they would be showing a favoritism (bias) to you.

This happened to me and I got a new job within weeks and it turned out to be for the best! It is really hard and feels personal!