Driving/pedestrian priority question (with diagram!)

[Angryspaceshipman]

There is a road junction where I am fairly certain I understand the priorities in play but would really like some insight.

After another day where a man (angry red spaceship car) has been shouting and gesturing at me (bewildered yellow spaceship car) for not ploughing in to pedestrians because he is flashing and waving me to come out of the minor road immediately at his command.

It may be irrelevant but the shops in purple lead to poor visibility of pedestrians for drivers in the minor road. If it's busy there's also normally a small wait until there is a gap in pedestrians to get in or out the junction. By the time one finishes crossing, normally another has started.

In your opinion who takes priority in this scenario?

Bus departing from stop on right which holds red car at their double lines. At the same time the bus passes, thus allowing the red car to cross the carriageway and turn into the minor road, the yellow car reaches their double lines. There are pedestrians crossing the raised table (orange) but I'll pretend they weren't there to make it more straightforward as I'm fairly certain that I am right to not mow them down on a daily basis even if it were to make the commute quicker.

YANBU: Red car should have turned in to minor road first.
YABU: Yellow car should have turned out of minor road first.

Ultimately, I didn't have to make a decision on priority of the cars as the angry red man floored it through the junction and made pedestrians flee for their lives (maybe a bit dramatic) when I wasn't willing to knock them down.

If the full image doesn't show, you can see the edge of my bewildered yellow spaceship at the bottom left of centre which is in the minor road.

Bump because I put my heart and soul in that diagram.

ignoring the rights and wrongs of the situation, ⭐️ for that diagram. 🎩

But to add, if someone waves/signals you to go ahead, and there’s an accident, it’ll be on you. Sadly, ‘an angry spaceship man made me do it and ran away’ isn’t a defence. Seems to me that you were right to wait until you’d established it was safe to proceed.

Red car driver is a twat, who may think he is being helpful by signalling to you but really isn’t.

From the road marking in front of your yellow car, you obviously have to give way to on coming traffic approaching through the pedestrians.
If you have already passed the raised table, it looks like there is space for two-way traffic, so I'm not sure why red car was so cross.

The main thing I take from your diagram is that the pedestrians have absolute priority! Pedestrians should be able to walk to and fro without stopping, in the same way as the main road traffic should.

Is there no indication of who gets priority through the narrowing? That seems a design error to me...

Thank you all! I'm glad I've not had anyone saying it's clear as day who the priority goes too because it does feel confusing so pleased I'm not just thick.

It's normally just down to who gets a gap in pedestrians first, normally red car side as they have better visibility. It's also not the end of the world if red car moves out and then doesn't make it across the raised table in one go as there's little traffic coming through the bus lane and it's quite wide.

It looks like there should be space for two cars after the raised table but unfortunately it's just my scale that is off. It isn't really sufficient so if you pull out from the minor road (mowing down your pedestrians on the way of course) and can't make the left turn on to the road for another reason then there isn't space for red car to get past you.

I just really hate it when other drivers try and demand that you do something on their say so. @GinToBegin @bridgetreilly I do normally completely ignore them, ultimately it's not their car/life/prison sentence that they're making the decision on but mine. On a similar line, my biggest annoyance is people who stop for me on a 50mph dual carriageway or tiny slip road off a 70 road when I'm running. Then get really pissed off when I don't choose to take them up on running in to the second lane of free flowing traffic or risk them getting rear ended in to me.

Yup, if pedestrians are in the road, or about to cross as you want to turn onto a minor road, they have right of way.

It would have all taken two or three minutes more or less if angry spaceship man would. have calmed down and you’re totally correct to make your own judgement

10/10 diagram!

Pedestrians have priority as they are crossing side rd, added to which the raised table is traffic calming which red twat face driver has ignored, along with priority rules

I have no idea @Angryspaceshipman ... But that's an ace diagram!

So I'm sure you're in the right.

might be misunderstanding your diagram. But:
A) Obviously any pedestrians in the road always take priority (whether or not they should have stepped into the road in the first place);
B) Red car should move before yellow car;
C) Unless there are lights or a zebra crossing I can’t see/ you’ve not put in, both cars have priority over the pedestrians on the pavement who should wait until it’s safe to cross. Certainly neither red nor yellow car should be waving any pedestrians across as they cannot know that it is wholly safe.

@MumbleBumbleAppleCrumble i don’t think you are right abt pedestrian priority. Pedestrians walking alongside a main road have priority over any turning (in or out) traffic. In theory… not in practice tho…

I'd looked and seen that pedestrians have priority over cars turning in to or out of a minor road? Then the raised table seems to elevate their priority too, so pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross prioritised above all other users?

Tbh pedestrians don't normally cause an issue here apart from having to wait. Rarely does anyone wait at the side of the road to cross, they just carry on walking (normally with no attention paid to cars) at the same pace and you have to bear it in mind and adjust instead. I can't really blame pedestrians, it's a town high street and a small turn off plonked in amongst it.

I find the whole thing confusing but generally fine, we all plod along and get to where we want to be just using common sense mostly? Feels wrong in the sense of driving but along the lines of... I don't stop and wave hordes of pedestrians across all day, but I also won't try and push through a horde of pedestrians but instead wait for a gap. Similarly if I can see a pedestrian within a few foot of it I'll slow slightly so they get across before I reach it.

Now angry red spaceship man has me questioning what the underlying rules are for the two cars though as I don't think I should be driving on 'initiative'!

And no there's no lights or zebras here. Just the raised section to keep the continuous run of the pavement over the junction.

To clarify, I very very rarely wave pedestrians across a road in any situation. As you say, it's not my position to decide that it's safe for them to cross. Similarly I'll very rarely wave a car out, generally only in close to standstill traffic if they're turning left in to my lane.

Flashing his lights trying to direct traffic flow is illegal for a start and I think you should all
just wait for the pedestrians

I do wish they would just paint those raised lumps as zebras though - we have a lot of them round here and the locals treat them as zebras and the visitors don’t

Pedestrians had the priority, but then it's red car, as you weren't at the end of the minor road yet. He was trying to let you go first, perhaps even trying to be helpful by letting you know that (in his opinion) it was clear. So he got angry because you ignored his attempt to 'be nice'.

I too hate it when people try to let me go when it's their priority, and I'm not going to trust someone else's judgment of what's safe for me to do.

Yes, I think I could have saved a whole load of rambling if I'd just said from the start it isn't a zebra but basically treat as one by both pedestrians and cars.

I think it also has the same rules as a zebra essentially due to position.

It feels like red car has priority to me. In my head it is pedestrians then as soon as there is a gap it is red car man, then me.

(further confused in that sometimes there's no space to tuck in on the minor road if someone is parked on the double yellows in which case yellow car has to go if they've got no open spaces left to tuck in to, save reversing right up the hill. But that wasn't the case here so I'll shut my mouth).

Even worse is it wasn't even clear! There was a constant stream of people crossing the road whilst he was getting all het up at me not going. Then he floored it through the second there was an (in my opinion unsafe) microgap in pedestrians.

For what it's worth, these are the coordinates

54.8580489, -1.5743722

I name changed anyways for fear my boring posting history about pointless shit is linked to me 😂

which has been put in to show the drivers that the pedestrians have priority - but some drivers ignore these and ignore the Highway Code and ignore rules they don't like. Then complain there is a war on drivers when measure are put in to stop them ignoring the rules, such as speed cameras, sleeping policemen, traffic calming, motorway cameras etc

OP I have no idea of the rights and wrongs of who should go first other than pedestrians have priority. I just wanted to say I love your diagram especially the spaceship cars.