To not understand the obsession with doing medicine

[SharpHazelDeer]

My dd is 17 in the second last year of high school. She goes to an all girls' private school so I don't know if this is part of the reason why, but at least a quarter of her grade wants to study medicine when they graduate.

dd gets decent grades so she often gets asked if she wants to do medicine. When she says no she usually gets a shocked expression and sometimes people even ask her if she has given up. This really shouldn't be about race, but people are somehow under the assumption her dad (who is asian, so she is half asian) wants her to do medicine. In reality her dad doesn't care what she does as long as she does something constructive to whatever life she wants for herself.

I genuinely don't understand where these comments are coming from and they are making dd question if she should try for medicine but she knows she's not interested in being a physician.

It’s seen as a solid and respectable career. I know in Asian communities dr or lawyer seem to be what they push for. Medicine does pay well, not the extreme salaries in some finance or legal professions but it’s still excellent, way above average, I know my friends are both earning over £100k as consultant (him) and gp partner (her) and their house definitely illustrates this.

It is still common amongst Asian communities, doctors are revered. It’s bloody hard work! Most Doctors I know earn very well. They may complain but there is no shortage of holidays and private schools amongst the ones I know.

@SharpHazelDeer what is dds:passion? Should she move to another school to continue her education?
I don't get the ethnic expectations either

I do some work in grammars and Indy schools with a high Asian % due to the areas. I see many kids who want to be drs/do medicine (and I don’t see the high flyers) so I’m guessing that often it’s a ‘parents’ thing

You say your daughter perhaps wants to be a speech pathologist : I note you’re in Oz but presume the differentials are similar. Top rate for very senior speech pathologist / therapist in Uk: £56k or so. Top rate for senior consultant with bonuses, pension contribution etc (nb public only, not private work) £200k.

Speech pathology is both a scientifically based qualification and caring role, same as medicine. If she has the academic ability, wouldn’t you encourage her to maximise her earning potential finding a niche that n medicine that ticks the boxes that speech pathology does? Cleft palate repair , ENT, audiologist?

I work at an all girls school and on the race question we do have a lot of Asian girls who are under a lot of pressure to do something medical (way more than other races) even when they’re really not suitable. One of the girls I’m really proudest of was ‘strongly encouraged’ to become a doctor and was neither interested nor scientifically that able. She wanted to bake, loved it, always bringing stuff in. She now owns a bakery ❤️

I tried to talk my DC out of medicine and my Asian clients could not believe I didn’t want my DC to do medicine!

In the back of my mind I still see the law conversion course and medical negligence as a viable pivot for my DC😂. DC doesn’t. But, it’s an option in my mind still!

My DC is enjoying their medicine degree. They love the course. Made loads of friends. They like interacting with patients, respect their tutors and medics on placements. Like others have said it’s a degree you really have to want to do. Some people in their degree year applied over 4 times over 4 years before they got accepted (and this was after doing a first degree in something else in some cases).

I believe the application process is really competitive still and trying to be more inclusive. They are trying to weed out nepotism in the medical degree application process at least.

If all goes to plan DC will be 22 years old (late August birthday) when they start their first FY1 job and being so young they still have options to pivot and change careers. This is how I see my role in their life now making sure they know nothing has to be forever and whatever happens changing careers is still viable. I’m always looking up law conversion courses! Currently trying to make sure they know if they want to intercalate at masters level this will limit choices of funding in the future if they do want to pivot away from medicine and pursue a masters in something else (I know I am a terrible mother).

I can totally understand the obsession - if I'd known that it's (well was) a guaranteed job, earning £200K, then I would have done it, I often wished I had, I comfortably got the grades. I've worked as a scientist, a teacher and now work in tech and I've never earned more than £45K, I don't know how/where people get these jobs that earn more.

I'm from a working class family, first person to go to uni, both parents had learning difficulties (but very loving, I had a great childhood), so never did any qualifications and left school at 14/15. School was chaos (albeit with some really dedicated teachers), especially during the miners' strikes in the 80s. No significant adult in my life had a clue about jobs that clever people did.

I was this odd kid in my family who was extremely clever, and I just chose my favourite subject at school (chemistry) to study at uni. TBF, I absolutely loved it, and went on to do a Ph.D.

While junior doctors aren't especially well paid, consultants are. In areas outside London, few jobs will pay as highly as an NHS consultants salary, particularly when you take into account the excellent pension scheme on top. The fact remains that because in many areas they are the highest earners, a lot of doctors send their children to private schools, so you get a disproportionately high number of doctors children in those schools. Its a career lots of the kids are familiar with so an obvious choice.

We are Asian and Dd wants to be a dr. I’m not sure if she ever will, but she’s been saying she wants to be a dr since she was 3.
I’ve never mentioned it. There are no drs in my family. I couldn’t care less what my dc do as long as they have a work ethic and it’s something that will help them to have a good future.
I always get the impression that people think I’ve pushed Dd into it and always feel like I need to say something when Dd says she wants to be a dr if people ask her what she wants to do.
For her, it’s just something she decided herself from young and has never wavered from it.

Asian parents often give only a few choices to their kids regarding the future path career. All of them are seen as financially safe - high salary, etc. So medicine, finance, banking, anything related. Most of Asian kids are pushed into Grammars/private schools and tutored heavily since early years. Choosing your own career that is different to your parents' wishes is discouraged. I suspect most of these girls have been told from nappies to aim for medicine. They do it to please their parents. I am married to an Asian whose father was a doctor and DH is an engineer. Son has been heavily tutored in maths and is taking his 11+ now. I can see the same pattern in all Asian families around me. They worry a lot about their kids' financial futures. Letting their kids choose some arts, humanities or simply being a barber in a shop or nail technician , or going to next-door comprehensive is seen as crazy and irresponsible parenting. A cultural difference, I guess.

Aren't particularly well off? 🤣🤣🤣 Remember that doctors' salary bands are in the public domain, you cant get away with posting that bollox.

The roles you quote in medicine aren't equivalent to Speech Pathology though.Audiology is a separate profession and ENT is definitely medical.
And having the academic ability to study medicine in no way means someone will be a good doctor or happy in medicine.

This was me 40 years ago, I was academically able studying 3 sciences at my selective girls school and I had the same questions and pressure as to why I wasn't aiming for medicine!
Of all the decisions I question that one I still am completely ok with. Academically I could have done it but I would never have coped with the rest of it or with the pressure of working as a doctor, I knew that even at 17.
No point in maximising your earning potential if you are unhappy and then having a nervous breakdown...

Oh and in some communities what your parents want you to study is a stronger influence than your own preferences. There's a huge leaning in these sorts of communities towards careers that are considered both prestigious, academic and lucrative - often medicine, law, accountancy/actuarial, and engineering. It can be considered you bring honour and pride to your family by becoming a doctor or lawyer, even if you hate it.

But I know a lot of Drs (kids at private school) and they aren’t particularly well off

Well no they might not be these days after a couple of sets of private school fees. Whereas in the past doctor salaries were relatively higher and private fees lower, it was very affordable for doctors. FIL was a doctor and comfortably afforded 3 through private from age 3 during the 90s, plus a huge house in Surrey, with a stay at home wife.

But still anyone affording private fees is among the wealthiest in the country.

There tend to be reasons behind stereotypes… I agree that young women should feel free to choose the career path that best suits them, but in my experience south Asian families tend to push their daughters into medicine to an extent not seen in people from other cultures. I’m not saying that’s right, and it’s certainly not everyone, but that’s tendency (at least it was when I was at school).

I went to an academic girls’ school 20 odd years ago and if you were good at science, you were told to do medicine, if you were good at humanities, you were told to do law. A lot of it is social pressure to do a “respectable” career. Many followed those prescribed paths for an easy life, especially if they didn’t know what they wanted to do; quite a few dropped out of medicine or no longer practice.

My dd also has one Asian parent (my DH) who hasn't ever been remotely pushy about what career path dd might choose.

As it happens, dd is doing medicine but she often feels the need to tell people that it "isn't for Asian reasons".

We do find it funny to see the approving reactions from DH's friends and family in his home country when we explain what dd is doing. It's like we've finally made it as parents because we have produced a soon-to-be doctor.

I think it's because it's so hard to get in to that you're seen as the most academic, so it's aspirational.

Being a Doctor still has prestige. DS did medicine and is now a Doctor in Melbourne. The reality is different. At least in the early stages it is a huge amount of responsibility for maximum stress with very modest rewards. If DS had his time again he would not have done it.

We are minority ethnic groups that push for medical careers. Probably why we are both doctors in our 40s. I was steered into it by a gently pushy mother and an encouraging head of year at my all girls private school who believed I was able.

I was going to do a science degree. I just wasn't sure what I wanted to do so went with the flow aged 16 filling out Ucas applications. DHs mum is a doctor, he's very bright and was always going to be a doctor. His brother is also a doctor.

DC definitely does not want to be a doctor and we won't be encouraging it.

The obsession with medicine comes from doctors’ ability to preserve lives and save lives. It’s a tough job and an honourable thing to do.

I don’t think a medical degree is solely an aspiration for Asian parents, although they might be more ruthless pushing their kids.

A friend from West Africa said to me: I want my daughter to become a doctor, like a good African mother!

I think it’s safe to say that medicine is a career choice that makes parents of all cultures proud.

They’re well off compared to the average but they’re not rich rich - they’re not like hedge fund or private equity types or even bankers. For the time it takes and the level of intelligence and hard work, the pay isn’t THAT good, given what the opportunity cost is for a student who is smart enough to do medicine.

That’s my exact point and I agree fully. It used to be prestigious because of both what you were doing and the salary you could command. My parents neighbour had a huge house, three kids at private school and a SAHM wife on a GP salary in Sussex in the 80s. That house recently sold for 2million, no GP is affording that with private school fees as well.

I still do think it’s prestigious but it’s a mid to high income job now, not a very high earning job.

It’s still a great job though, to save lives is amazing.

Rishi Sunak's parents didn't do bad on a gp and pharmacist (another popular south Asian profession) income they sent three sons to Winchester school.
One of my DC's is a doctor and despite other DC's having equally valuable jobs - teaching, national security etc it is always the doctor who is mentioned particularly by my African and Asian colleagues