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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how the UK will look in 3 years time?

905 replies

Labradorlover987 · 11/08/2025 13:19

I was inspired to write this after reading the UC post that was just reported - the govt’s welfare bill has passed but was watered down so unlikely to make any real savings.

I earn 40k, have a school age child and just feel like I am living hand to mouth 😩 I 100% think there should be a welfare systems that supports people on low incomes but I wonder how the current system will be sustained in the long run?

Just wondered what other people thought.

I actually wouldn’t mind paying more in taxes if we could be guaranteed more in services etc - for example my council tax just went up and the services seem even worse this year than usual.

OP posts:
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5
NettleTea · 12/08/2025 18:48

floormats · 12/08/2025 10:45

There's a solution to all of this. Tax wealth not work.

Older generations won't go for it though so we are stuck in this downward spiral

The older generation wont be taxed. Their 'wealth' is so far down the radar that it doesnt even figure.

I think alot of people dont get how far far FAR above everyday people, even high six figure earners, the real wealth horders are.

My parents, both pretty staunchly Tory in their day, nice final salary pensions and a decent home, approve of this.

The banks are not in charge. The super rich LEND to the banks now. All our amenities are in the hands of private companies who have been allowed to run rife on prices, absolutely scraping every last penny for shareholders and refusing to do the minimum of standards of care.

There was an interesting program on R4 a while back, talked about how we are here, how has the edconomics of business ended up here, and it came from the US, the push to change the responsibility of companies to be responsible and accountable to the stakeholders (ie anyone who had an interest in a company - so for a water company, for example, there was a responsibility for the environment, for the local community, for the customers, and the workers) to the main drive and importance being to the shareholders.

The consequences should have been clear, but Im guessing freeing up the economy and growth seemed politically more important to government at the time when this shift happened. (Im looking at you, Thatcher)

And once that did happen, well corporation and unregulated capitalism just did what it did, and did it well. It was always designed to make the most money as possible, even if it drained it away from everyone else, destroyed community, destroyed governments, destroyed the services, in its process.

As a result a huge proportion of the money and the assets are being hoarded, they are not in circulation, so they cant be used for doing the stuff that government needs to do to support the services that the population needs. So things are cut to the bones and since Austerity, the governments have been rearranging the deckchairs on a sinking ship which is rapidly running out of fuel.

The far right, like Farage, (and the super wealthy) see this as a great opportunity to mop up everything else. Farage is a twat. He is brownnosing the billionaires who he has courted to fund his party, and is spouting the popular line to do it.

He is keen on riling people up - and when people are scared, and people are scared, because they can see the impact of living on the crumbs, and they are scared of what little resources they have being taken by someone else, and he is getting everyone pointing and blaming each other. Thats easier to manage, it makes them angry and angry mobs dont think too hard, but they can cause chaos and distruction. They are certainly causing destruction to the current government, forcing them to address all sorts of stuff that shouldnt be happening, if the REAL people to blame were identified and forced to pay their share.

So yes. Tax wealth not work. Wealth like huge parts of London which are owned by the super rich. They cant take those assets with them, they are bricks and mortar. They are not talking about my parents house, or someone with a couple of buy to lets to pad out their pension. But thats what Farage wants you to think 'tax wealth' means. He wants people who have anything to align themselves with 'being rich' so that their fear of super tax on wealth (and tbh I dont think anyone has suggested super tax, Ive only ever seen low single digits) is going to hit them, and object to it.

Its going to be the ONLY way to get money back into the system, to equalise things a bit. To ease up the pressure on working people, and I dont know why the fuck this supposed labour governemt wont do it and are buying in to the pointy finger 'its that vulnerable persons fault' farage game.

tissuesand · 12/08/2025 18:52

Maia77 · 12/08/2025 18:38

Wealth tax is not about taxing high-earning working people. It's about taxing the super wealthy - people whose wealth exceeds 10 million. It's about taxing wealth, not work to prevent the transfer of wealth from ordinary people (low and high earners) to the super rich. The working people are being completely squeezed out.

But those people put all their wealth off shore. HMRC needs to stop persecuting people who make small mistakes in their tax returns while ignoring certain people with knighthoods and TV personalities who stash all their millions in the Cayman Islands, for example. One of the biggest fraudsters I ever met put all his money into offshore property, using forged passports. He had a very respectable job in the insurance industry. His fraud was exposed in the family court during his divorce, but no further action was taken regarding his financial dealings.

ChildFreeAndOhSoHappy · 12/08/2025 18:56

Alexandra2001 · 12/08/2025 10:04

Its 10,000 out of 2.8million..... hardly 75%......

But what did having all these millionaires do for us? and many will still be paying tax in the UK, on property and businesses still here.....

Why would they be paying tax in the UK? You only pay tax in the UK if you are a UK tax resident and if they leave the UK due to taxes it would be primarily to make sure they are no longer a UK tax resident. Sure, if they have property here they will pay council tax and a few other small things, but income tax? Nope. CGT? Nope. Corporation tax? Nope.

ChildFreeAndOhSoHappy · 12/08/2025 18:59

OneCoralCat · 11/08/2025 22:47

I have a similar income to you, I also wouldn’t mind paying more tax. Even 10% more, people would grumble of course but really I wouldn’t notice it in the end. And I’d trade that for better public services all day long!

People on a higher salary would absolutely notice it, it would be a much bigger chunk and I would 100% not pay 10% higher taxes.

Araminta1003 · 12/08/2025 19:01

If you want a wealth tax, don’t come up with a ridiculously high rate that nobody will pay like 2%.
If you have a 100 and put it in the bank at 4% as an additional rate tax payer. You will already be paying 45% on the 4 you get back. If you tax another 2% of that, there is literally 0.2 left. Nobody will stay back for 0.2 return on a 100.

Try 0.5% max wealth tax.
The Norwegians did 1.1% and a lot of rich people left. Even the Swiss absolute max in a canton is less than 1% and there are a lot of deductions and that canton loses a lot of people to other cantons. Hence Federer left canton Basel quite recently to go to Wollerau - and he is meant to be a goodie goodie two shoes.

NettleTea · 12/08/2025 19:06

well how about a Global wealth tax
Every country signed up to it, and hefty fines for any country caught flouting it.
Its not as if every country isnt in the same boat

ChildFreeAndOhSoHappy · 12/08/2025 19:08

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 12/08/2025 07:48

Out of interest where is this country where hard work pays off and people can earn decent money alongside a decent lifestyle? I’m hoping to ship my kids off there when they’re older but I’m not convinced it exists.

Edited

Before Trump, I would have said America.

BIossomtoes · 12/08/2025 19:09

ChildFreeAndOhSoHappy · 12/08/2025 18:03

I'm not of an older generation but I would not support a wealth tax. A wealth tax would affect anybody with assets. I already pay such high taxes, why would I support them taking even more? What is the benefit of working hard and doing well if everything is taxed so much? The uber wealthy will always be able to hide what they have and laws like this will just affect the upper middle class. Pass.

The idea of a wealth tax is to target the uber wealthy. I am from an older generation and I’d welcome it.

FiestyGemini · 12/08/2025 19:27

Labradorlover987 · 11/08/2025 13:19

I was inspired to write this after reading the UC post that was just reported - the govt’s welfare bill has passed but was watered down so unlikely to make any real savings.

I earn 40k, have a school age child and just feel like I am living hand to mouth 😩 I 100% think there should be a welfare systems that supports people on low incomes but I wonder how the current system will be sustained in the long run?

Just wondered what other people thought.

I actually wouldn’t mind paying more in taxes if we could be guaranteed more in services etc - for example my council tax just went up and the services seem even worse this year than usual.

I worry about it every day but assume rather pesamiatically the wealthy 1% will be richer and the poor/working class will be poorer.

Someone has to pay back for Covid.

I have no birth children because I cant afford them, i pay 40%tax now and i about survive that's with working OT(both forced and willing, again I work in healthcare).

I have no problem paying more into the system but to what point? I cant give over 50% of my income to tax and national insurance for the greater good, when I think I sacrificed enough. I would be willing if (big if) better work/life balance and my utility bills (as an example) were not 250+ per month during winter.

Is it better in other countries, no not 100% but some things are markidly better.
(Sorry for the bad spelling I'm doing this off my phone)

Araminta1003 · 12/08/2025 19:33

I am up for taxes that actually raise revenue, not those that cost us like non dom 10 year lingering inheritance tax, 2 per cent wealth tax or private school VAT. The devil is in the detail. Non doms becoming tax resident is fair enough but telling people whose wealth was created elsewhere that they are going to be looking at a 40 per cent inheritance tax when their own country doesn’t do that is completely bonkers. Ditto charging people money for saving the state money not having to educate their kids. These aren’t revenue raising taxes, it’s attention seeking populism punitive taxes.

ChickenChow · 12/08/2025 19:37

mylovedoesitgood · 11/08/2025 21:57

I agree, I don’t see anything getting better. The housing market will continue to slow, unemployment will be 10%, everything will be more expensive, the weather will be warmer, and possibly means-tested state pensions will have come in.

If they means test pensions who will want to stay, I mean who from the people who contribute more than they take?

Twofoursixeight · 12/08/2025 19:40

ChildFreeAndOhSoHappy · 12/08/2025 17:35

It's responses like this that make me so glad we are leaving the UK. Let me guess, you are a low rate tax payer with no assets? You must be, otherwise why would you advocate for more taxes on what are already high taxes?

Wrong on both counts, actually. My household is well above average in both income and assets. I'm just bright enough to see that my interests align much more closely with those of the ordinary person than those of the very wealthy.

I also love my country and care about the suffering of the poor. It's a little bit sad that you can't even imagine what that's like.

OneCoralCat · 12/08/2025 19:41

ChildFreeAndOhSoHappy · 12/08/2025 18:59

People on a higher salary would absolutely notice it, it would be a much bigger chunk and I would 100% not pay 10% higher taxes.

Well of course it would be bigger in terms of actual amounts, that’s how percentages work.

If you have a bigger pie, your 10% slice weighs more than mine 🤷🏻‍♀️

But I said I wouldn’t mind, you can’t really debate that fact, I was only talking about myself.

Personally, I’m happy to pay more if we get more. Other people won’t be and that’s fine.

What I do find odd are the people who don’t want to pay more, but also want to moan about the state of public services. Either you pay more tax (as a country) or you accept a reduction in services.

MyNameIsX · 12/08/2025 19:42

BIossomtoes · 12/08/2025 19:09

The idea of a wealth tax is to target the uber wealthy. I am from an older generation and I’d welcome it.

By ‘uber wealthy’ do you mean UHNW?

If so, you will know they are mobile.

Ah you say, so the government should bring in an exit tax.

You see the problem, right?

BIossomtoes · 12/08/2025 19:43

MyNameIsX · 12/08/2025 19:42

By ‘uber wealthy’ do you mean UHNW?

If so, you will know they are mobile.

Ah you say, so the government should bring in an exit tax.

You see the problem, right?

You tax their static assets. You can’t take bricks and mortar with you. You see there is no problem, right?

MyNameIsX · 12/08/2025 19:48

BIossomtoes · 12/08/2025 19:43

You tax their static assets. You can’t take bricks and mortar with you. You see there is no problem, right?

That, in turn, catches a significant number of older asset heavy/cash light owners - some of whom would be compelled to liquidate. So, no I do not agree with a wealth tax - it has been proven not to work in the majority of countries that have tried it, and would be pure political grandstanding, so beloved by Labour.

Again, how do you define ‘uber wealthy’?

WestwardHo1 · 12/08/2025 19:49

Charlthg · 11/08/2025 22:13

In 3 years time, the country will be close to bankrupt. IMF will be preparing a package. The top rate taxpayers will have almost all left. The benefits gravy train will be off the tracks but still hurtling towards disaster. Illegal immigration will be even higher. There will be strikes every week, with the unions pretty much in charge of the dumpster fire that is this country.

And Reform will be preparing for power.

Enjoy folks.

Edited

And on the plus side..?

WestwardHo1 · 12/08/2025 19:50

This thread is a perfect example of why, ultimately, social media is catastrophic for mental health.

Alexandra2001 · 12/08/2025 19:55

ChildFreeAndOhSoHappy · 12/08/2025 18:56

Why would they be paying tax in the UK? You only pay tax in the UK if you are a UK tax resident and if they leave the UK due to taxes it would be primarily to make sure they are no longer a UK tax resident. Sure, if they have property here they will pay council tax and a few other small things, but income tax? Nope. CGT? Nope. Corporation tax? Nope.

Corporation Tax is payable from 2020... and so is CGT.... your business will still be paying business rates....

Depends what you re doing and how you derive your income.

Twofoursixeight · 12/08/2025 19:57

The really sad thing is that so many people cannot seem to understand that they are on the wrong side of inequality. Like, they have a house, maybe a few houses, maybe they're property millionaires, they are higher rate taxpayers, and they think for that reason that they are the rich, and that the interests of the rich are the same as their interests.

If you're in this position, I would ask you this: can you afford not only to buy yourself a house, but also buy your children and all your grandchildren houses too, plus pay their bills, pay for their food, pay for their education, their health care, and also all of their pensions?

Because if the super rich are allowed to become richer and richer, asset price inflation will mean that no one can afford these things via wages anymore, only through inheritance. If you can't pay for all of these things for your family, then your family is fucked.

The rich do not need to be awful people in order for this argument to work. They just need to be ordinary people doing what ordinary people do with money, which is to spend it. Even if they hoard lots of it, if they've got billions, then they will inflate asset prices and inflate them by a lot. Your children will not be able to afford assets anymore. You need to understand this.

YourTruthorMine · 12/08/2025 20:00

rich getting richer (and I don't mean the deluded Mumsnetters on 6 figure salaries)
poor getting poorer
decline of the middle class
Pensions means tested, pension age raised
No NHS
Large corporations buying up housing stock to rent out
No holidays, no car (unless you can afford the latest 'fake' green version)

that's it for a start, there are many more

Alexandra2001 · 12/08/2025 20:03

ChildFreeAndOhSoHappy · 12/08/2025 17:35

It's responses like this that make me so glad we are leaving the UK. Let me guess, you are a low rate tax payer with no assets? You must be, otherwise why would you advocate for more taxes on what are already high taxes?

l pay higher rate tax now and derive some income from investments, i don't see why i shouldn't be taxed at more then 24% or 18% if earnings drop....on unearned income...

In fact, Reeves changes to CGT have really pissed me off, a lower rate tax payer is taxed almost the same as income rates but the better off have a 16% saving.... to keep it fair, should be 38%

Why???

Araminta1003 · 12/08/2025 20:04

That is incorrect. Most of us on here are middle class and fully understand that when Labour comes up with nonsense taxes that lead to a lot of the rich leaving, which they tend to do when there are punitive taxes, the tax burden for us and our children increases and we get squeezed even more.

Bambamhoohoo · 12/08/2025 20:06

Alexandra2001 · 12/08/2025 19:55

Corporation Tax is payable from 2020... and so is CGT.... your business will still be paying business rates....

Depends what you re doing and how you derive your income.

What do you mean corp tax and cgt are payable from 2020?

WhatOnEarthm8 · 12/08/2025 20:22

Yeah, unfortunately I feel very sad about the future. And not just because of money, but the more the population increases, and wars keep going on, higher inflation, the worse it's going to be. Rates of pollution from plastics and fossil fuels are getting worse and rates of illness are increasing too. It definitely makes me think what future my kids are going to have, and even more so if they have kids. I can't imagine anything getting better either, I just think the divide between the rich and poor is getting stronger, and higher income doesn't necessarily help considering the tax rates. Everything is getting harder.