AIBU to take out a loan in this situation?

[Babyswearing]

Brought first house a few years ago. House is a project and needs lots of work, more than we knew or anticipated. Circumstances have changed since we moved in - husband's health is poor and we had a surprise baby. Cost of living means we're both working full time and only just making ends meet. There's certainly no money left over to renovate the house once bills etc are paid.

The house is in a poor condition. There are issues with damp and the drains and it smells. The boiler needs replacing and moving. There's no flooring throughout the house as we had to rip it all out when we moved in and haven't been able to replace it. The kitchen is absolutely knackered and desperately needs replacing. The electrics are awful with only a single old socket in the upstairs rooms. The radiators need replacing. The windows need replacing. The bath leaks and the shower needs replacing. And on and on it goes.

The house is horrible to live in. It's dirty (in a way I can't clean), cluttered, and it smells. I can't ventilate properly as most windows won't open and there is mould everywhere. Most of the walls are bare plaster and many have damp patches. There are bare floorboards above an uninsulated suspended floor meaning it's also absolutely freezing. Living here is miserable for me and my children and I just can't see a way out.

We've had the house valued and it hasn't increased in value since we brought it - unsurprisingly since all we've done is uncover issues with it and make it look worse. We saw a financial advisor who told us it wouldn't be sensible to sell it as we have no equity, it would cost us ~10k in fees to sell it, our affordability will have changed now we have full time childcare fees, and our mortgage is fixed for another two years at a lower rate than we'd currently be able to get. So selling doesn't seem like a good option.

We've looked at grants etc and used some to improve insulation and the heating and do some work on the roof. We're not entitled to any other support with costs as we're not on benefits. We hoped we could just chip away at it ourselves in the evenings/weekends but with young children and no childcare outside of work, combined with DH's health issues, we're just overwhelmed by the day to day as it is and barely have time to keep up with normal life without this massive project on top.

So I'm proposing to DH that we try to get a loan of 50k so we can do some of what needs to be done to make it liveable. He thinks this is insanity and the last thing we want is additional debt, but what else can we do?

So aibu to stretch ourselves financially to get a loan to sort the house out? Or is this one of those times where you just have to grin and bear it and wait for better times ahead? What would you do (absent get a time machine and not buy the house to begin with)?

This does not sound like a very good situation. especially given your H's health issues. Are you sure these are not, in part, caused by the state of the house?
Anyway, with the information you provided I would ask the following:

1. Can you afford repayments, given your current financial state?
2. Are you eligible for a boiler replacement grant?
3. What is the bare minimum amount of work that needs to be done to get the house in a reasonable/manageable state - I am talking structural, electricity, plumbing, roof, windows, insulation etc. rather than cosmetic?
4. Can you get estimates for this work, look at the numbers and see if it is feasible?
5. Would increasing your mortgage/extending the term be a viable alternative to a separate loan?
6. Have you considered getting hold of a de-humidifier to help with the damp/mould issues?

I doubt anyone would lend you 50k

If you're only just making ends meet with 2 jobs, you need to consider how you'd service an additional £50K debt on your mortgage. Did your house survey not point out all the structural deficiencies before you bought it, or did you turn a blind eye and buy the property anyway?

It sounds like the house condition is a surprise to you. Sorry to sound harsh but normally for a project property, part of the decision making process is to consider how much extra it will cost to make it habitable (especially with children and an ill husband living there), on top of the purchase price and moving costs, so you factor in the total cost of the property over the longer term and decide if you can afford it.

From what you’ve shared, you can’t afford the loan (or the house).
What are your earnings and outgoings? I’d be looking at what you can cut or earn to start to build up savings you can use on the house.

If your husband is unwell is there a risk that they may not be able to work full time in the future and service an extra £50,000 of debt?

Some of your items , such as moving the boiler , sounds more like wants than needs. I get that you may need a replacement boiler but it normally costs a lot to move a boiler to a new location so I would question if you really need to spend £50,000 on renovations.

I live in a damp property and a lot can be achieved with a dehumidifier , vinegar and DIY. If your husband is unwell , can he look after the child while you do DIY and paint etc to make what you have look better room by room or so you can get a second job or do overtime to pay for the really essential work?

If you take on a £50,000 personal loan with no equity in the property what is the fall back position? Renting is incredibly expensive and you may struggle if you end up with a poor credit rating because a £50,000 loan tipped the family finances over the edge.

Can you look at your expenditure to see if there are savings to be made on outgoings so you can set money aside to improve the house room by room?

Have you looked at freecycle sites as you may find that people are giving away spare paint and rugs for the floors as temporary measures while you save up.

Sorry to sound preachy but I bought a hovel to get on the housing ladder and so do know what it is like but keep reminding yourself that you have a home rather than a landlord and a 50,000 loan may risk that as well as your husband's health.

Grin and bear it whilst keeping it as dry and warm with decent running water for your own survival at the minimum expense.
In other words do a much as you can yourselves and employ help and support from friends and family.
You need to sit on your investment until the equity can at least cover expenses of moving

I would either get a second job or get a loan or borrow money from friends or family, about £5 - £10k for the most urgent stuff (that you can’t do yourself) which surely includes getting those windows open because having them closed won’t be doing anybody’s health any good. There’s no point taking out a loan for the £50k when you won’t be able to pay it back.

I am really surprised you bought the house in your former circumstances. You knew it needed work so where did you think the money was going to come from to pay for it?

I would sell up, cut my losses and try to find a rental property until you are back on your feet. This mould infested house will make your baby very sick and it can cause life long issues for them. No amount of money is worth risking that.

Mould and damp in a house makes you really sick. Detoxing from mould is a long term hugely expensive process.
I think you have to sell whilst you still can.

I agree with this, unfortunately.

It sounds like you can't afford to repay a loan to do even the most basic work, if someone would lend you the money.

Plus if you rented and your income dropped, you might get help with the cost.

If you stay in the house and struggle on, this could be your situation for many years - financial struggles and a 'horrible house' plus work that you don't have the time, energy or money to get through at a sensible rate. Plus if you did take out a loan, and you couldn't repay, that would damage your credit rating and cause problems for years to come.

I wouldn’t try to sell. Some of the work you’re describing is sorely needed but essentially cosmetic, like the kitchen; other parts are more critical ime (damp, ventilation). I would firstly try to understand what is mould and what is damp, and if anything is the former get to it with a bleach solution and a sponge (and as much ventilation as possible). Then reassess for damp. Replacing one or two windows with upvc is not expensive so that might be an easy win. Then get a quote if you haven’t yet for some of the other work and look at timescales. In the interim warm carpets and lots of draught-proofing measures for when the weather turns.

Things like “the radiators need replacing” - why? Is it urgent or they are inefficient but broadly working once drained etc?

They would have no money or not much left over after fees are paid, if they sell. They may never get back on the property ladder and they’re currently on a fixed two year deal, so it’s better to hold on to the house and get the urgent stuff sorted out first.

We did it.

I now owe 30k. However we are clean, dry and my house doesn’t feel disgusting! I can afford the repayments but it’s meant that we have to really budget. Worth it IMO, living like that really gets you down.

What I would say is there’s a lot of ways to bring the cost down. Things like radiators we left as they work so we didn’t replace everything!

when our 1st child was tiny we lived in a grotty flat whilst doing it up.

I have to say that if you really don’t want to move out you just need to take a deep breath and find the energy to make a start on DIY improvements. yes you will be knackered but that’s the price you pay. I remember working FT, 12 hours out of the house m-f and then spending all weekend doing renovation stuff with a tiny baby in the mix. Tough and it took 2 years. But we got there and made a lovely home.

what I learned from my experience:

1 Make a detailed plan. Prioritise the things that are most pressing, especially with winter approaching. I’d suggest ventilation for starters as it will improve so many things.

2 do one job at a time. Eg. This weekend I will unstick and strip this window on Saturday and paint it in Sunday. Next weekend I will do the bathroom window. On Friday night I’ll re-seal around the bath. Etc. tick things off your plan list. It will make you feel better as you can see the progress.

3 look at YouTube which has ‘how to’ videos for most things. Get the right tools and keep them together as it’s easy to lose them in the chaos ! Tools cost but will make all the difference and still be much cheaper than a 50k loan. Also see freecycle below. Some areas have tool hire or loan schemes so you can borrow specific tools rather than buying them.

things I found helpful
decent set of screwdrivers, electric sander, wallpaper steamer /stripper, decent wallpaper scraper with reiki cement blades, gun thingy for caulk and sealant, spanner, big and small hammers. Decent washable dust sheets. Builders rubble bags (million times better than black bin liners and reusable). Hand cream 😂

1. Ask for help. Specific small things that will make a difference. Eg asking someone to look after the kids for say 2 hours so you can crack on uninterrupted on a key task.

5 manage the childcare - schedule in the weekend activities and stick to it. For example -breakfast at 8 . Prep sandwiches for lunch. -out in the park with kids 8.30 - 10 -kids watch telly unsupervised 10-12.30. Then lunch . Prep dinner -pm out again for a runaround then back for jigsaws, Lego, play in own rooms or being your little helper.

And so on. You then have scheduled time windows to do your diy and kids are taken care of.

if DH is not well enough for DIY he will have to supervise the kids so you can do it uninterrupted

6 finish what you start before starting the next thing - if you get delayed or find a difficult thing to fix, get that sorted before starting thing. Will make things worse if you have a bunch of half done things.

7 get comfortable - go on freecycle to get rugs for the floor. It’s also a good place for tools and materials. Ask for what you need. People can be very helpful and generous.

8 look for second hand. Some places have partially used paint and materials available for low cost. See if you can find one locally to you. It will help keep costs down.

it’s daunting and hard and relentless but you can do this

If you can repay a loan of 50k over anything half sensible like 5 years then just start saving the equivalent of what the repayment would be each month as a home improvement pot.

I would make windows and boiler a priority here to get the place heated and ventilated now before winter - depending on your circumstances you could perhaps check out boiler grants but if not, I'd take a much smaller loan and get those sorted.

The rest I'd pace myself / DIY / clean.

I'd aim for hygienic and warm for now.

Sending a hug - we also live in a slow project and I know it can be overwhelming. On a plus point, my DIY skills are now excellent having learnt a lot as we went.

Cut your losses, sell up and move somewhere that's ready to live in. Good luck, hope it goes well. I had a similar situation once, and manged to get sorted 👍

YABU.

You said you are barely surviving financially so taking out a £50k loan would be ludicrous.

The only exception would be working out how much value the £50k investment would add to the house then selling once the work was done so you no longer have negative equity. That way you cam walk away with some money.

This is why people should pay attention to surveys when buying a home. There is no world where all this was missed by a surveyor.

House is a project and needs lots of work, more than we knew or anticipated

Everything you describe as being wrong should have been obvious from the initial property inspection report. Was none of this listed? What’s the timeframe for comeback re this or does the report have an indemnity clause?

If you are struggling now, how are you going to afford an extra loan repayment?

Thanks everyone for the good advice and words of support. To answer a few questions:

• We're not in the UK and the surveying system is different here. We had the highest level of survey we could get at the time and the things it picked up, we negotiated off the asking price and had savings to do or thought could be done later on. By the time we actually had contractors in place (you have to wait for stuff like that here - our roofer had a wait list of over a year) things had increased in price and the money didn't go as far as hoped, leaving things like the windows still to be done and no money left.

• The other stuff, we thought we could save for, do ourselves, wait for tbh. And if we hadn't had another baby and my husband's health hadn't worsened as it has, that probably would be the case but as happens, circumstances have changed. I do appreciate the advice from people on this thread about how to juggle the children so I can crack on with DIY. I'll speak to DH about this.

• DH has a disease that definitely isn't caused by the house, thanks.

• Yes we have dehumidifiers and most of the damp is improving following roof work. I treat the mould weekly at present.

• The boiler needs to move as apparently it doesn't comply with fire regs and to make its current location comply would cost about the same as moving it (it's oil and on its last legs and the company isn't happy to put a new one back in the same place). There are no grants I can access here to help with this unfortunately. Honestly I'm not sure why the radiators need replacing, just that the people who came to add thermostatic controls said they were knackered, but I agree it's not a priority.

• For those suggesting selling and going into rented, that would be a very very bad financial decision. Private rents where we live are much more expensive than our mortgage and extremely competitive.

• Thank you for the advice about using freecycle/marketplace for tools etc. I'll have a look.

I'm hearing what people are saying about us not being able to afford the repayments on a loan. It might be that we ruthlessly reprioritise and look to borrow a smaller amount, or that we save the equivalent of the repayments to do some of the work when we can. It just feels endless at the moment but I'm grateful for the advice on this thread.

You mention your DHs disease. Are there some kind of welfare payments associated for this? In the UK we have a thing called PIP for a range of conditions. There are various levels of payment. Is there something where you are that he may be eligible for? Or special grants to improve his living conditions for health reasons?

No advice, but it sounds like a nightmare, Op. Good luck

No. I sympathise because I'm living in a project so I understand how it can get you down but your DH is right, borrowing more would be madness. How much will borrowing 50k actually cost?
Sorting the windows (assume they're wooden and stuck shut? If so, they can be repaired) and replacing the leaky bath should be a priority.
What condition are the floorboards in? Can you hire a sander for a couple of days and strip and stain and seal the gaps between the boards? That'll look great and reduce draughts and dust.
Are there any grants for replacing the oil boiler with eg air source heat pump or pellet?