To think that management are pretty poor?

[Glassmatt]

DC16 “Chris” started a new job about 2 months ago. Waiting on in a local restaurant chain, only a couple of 3.5 hours shifts a week.

We’re going to Wales for a few days in 3 weeks so I told Chis to tell work they won’t be able to do one of their shifts where we’re away (Typical, the rota had only been done the day I booked the holiday) so sent an email to work Tuesday gone, but no one replied, then he told one of the managers this morning (when he was at work) who basically wasn’t interested and was no help. She said “ermm ask someone to cover it”. He doesn’t know anyone really as he’s hardly worked there. There is a group chat so he put it in that and asked if anyone would like it or to swap it and no ones replied as of yet.

We’re going away so the shift won’t be covered but to think it’s poor that no one replied to the email in the first place, then the manager was basically not bothered/unhelpful. He’s panicking now, thorough no fault of his own. I would have expected them to say ‘see if you can get it covered but don’t worry if not’. In the future if they don’t reply to emails, what’s going to to happen? How are employees supposed to let them know before the rota is even done, such as if there are dates they’re away/unavailable?

As I say he’s only 16. When I was booking it, I wasn’t thinking it would be a huge problem at his work.

WTF is supposed to happen now? We’re going away regardless. I know the main manager (not the one that was unhelpful today) and I’m very tempted to message them directly as I feel Chris has done all he can. Help!

Yes I’d message the main manager;
but moving forward most companies have an annual leave process policy you have to follow like a formal online request system and it’s either authorised or not. It would be good for Chris to be clear on this.

Well as with any job, what’s the holiday policy? You wouldn’t normally book a holiday without confirming you can get the time off work (assuming you want to keep the job). Just because he’s 16 and you’re his mum doesn’t give you priority over his workplace. If you owned a business, would you be telling your staff not to worry if they can’t fulfil their shift?

My DD15 has exactly the same, get workplace is so unhelpful, if they’re sick or want a/l they have to find their own cover.

There have been more times than I can count that we’ve turned up and they’ve said oh sorry the class is cancelled so we don’t need you today.

I try really hard not to get involved becuase even though she’s young I think she needs to learn, but last time that happened I told her I’d already gone too far to turn back so to tell them they needed to find something for her to do as she was rota’d to work.

Im counting down til she turns 16 so she can find a (hopefully) more reliable job!

He should follow the holiday procedure. Whatever that is. If that means HE has to find his own cover, then that's what he has to do.

I hear what you’re saying
and I don’t disagree with some if it, however it’s all pretty slapdash. I’m not going in to all the ins and outs, but there’s hardly any training or explanations and they’re just left to it. It’s not like they do the same shift every week, they do different ones so they wouldn’t have to put a holiday in necessarily

It's poor form if they didn't go over policies and procedures with him (if in fact they didn't). That said, everyone would likely need to put in holiday request - particularly if they aren't sure of what shifts are. That way the person doing the rota would know not to include them as and when. You sound a little entitled OP. He will either get in trouble or lose this job. If he can't find cover he will have to let manager know ASAP. You can message the main manager but its ultimately his responsibility he does things correctly.

Sorry but you booked a holiday without checking if he can have the time off work, and you think management are unreasonable?! Regular shift pattern or not, you don't book and then expect time off. Would you do that at your place of work? If he doesn't have a contract of employment with clear policies then that is an entirely different issue.

I run a business and this happened recently to me with a young employee. Mum booked a holiday and then got child to ask for time off. I couldn't get cover with two weeks notice and policy is a month's notice for leave. It smacks of the parent not thinking the job is a proper job, and that's what you are sounding like in your post. No wonder kids grow up with volumes of entitlement with parenting like this.

I don’t mean to sound entitled but if they can’t reply to an email, it would be difficult to let them know. Yes perhaps they are supposed to put a holiday request in, but he doesn’t seem to recall them saying that (though I agree that doesn’t mean he wasn’t told)

You have to ask for permission for time off, not just tell them when it’s happening.

I notice that you’re only looking at it from your perspective and you’ve criticised me for booking a holiday - fair enough I definitely see your point, however you’ve completely failed to acknowledge any wrong doing on their part which is quite telling as well. Do you think it’s professional of them to not respond to the email? This has happened twice just to add. If were to be held account for out actions then surely it works both ways?!

What is the holiday policy?

Does the rota have a set "published" date for the next month/2 weeks that you could have arranged to book before?

Is it a general email address for all managers or is it for one specific person?

What would you like them to say? I'd find it very odd if I received an email from an employee telling me they had booked a holiday without checking if they could have time off. I'd find it odd if I had received an email from an employee full stop, that is not how things are done unless you work for a company where leave has to go through a specific department. This kind of company would issue a written employment contract. It would be even stranger if I received an email from a parent of an employee.

You're attacking people here on behalf of your child, but at the end of the day, it's your child's responsibility and if you are getting involved he's going to end up getting sacked. I didn't hire someone on the basis that their parent got involved with the interview process.

This is why my workplace has stopped employing people under 18, after last summer - the busiest time in hospitality - and we had so many of this "I can't work those shifts, I'm going on holiday/family event/party/whatever it is" and when told that they can only have it if they source cover themselves because they haven't requested that time off at interview or through a proper holiday request (and everyone is issued with a staff handbook and told about the holiday, pay and general procedures) and it's too short notice, we then would have an irate mum or dad on the phone demanding to speak to a manager and kicking off.

It's a job, and 16 or 60 there are procedures in place for requesting time off, and an employer can (mine does in December) not authorise holidays at certain times because of business needs.

You're trying to deflect with the email thing, I wouldn't be replying to anyone but the employee to discuss this, and wouldn't discuss it with you at all.

I think you've got involved because you know it's unreasonable to book the holiday without having the time off already arranged, but don't have any respect for the job your son is doing, so think that you can just tell them what's happening and they'll have to accept it.

When you go to Wales and use leisure and hospitality services, are you going to accept poorer service because half the staff are off on holidays with their families they didn't ask for time off for and just went? Or would you call that bad management too? Employing people who do that?

People are almost rabid about 'shit service in this country!' and this is one of the reasons why it is shit. A huge demand for great service...... Until it affects them or their loved one. It's always ok when someone else needs to do it though.

They’re 16. It’s their first job. They’ve been there 7 weeks! I would like them and expect them to make sure their young inexperienced staff know what to do and make it crystal clear, if it’s apparent they aren’t sure. They are still learning and getting to grips with the procedures.

They had two opportunities to remind him of the correct procedure. They could have pointed him in the right direction by replying to his email in the first instance instead of ignoring it. They manager could have then told him to his face when he asked about it, but again, didn’t - so he’s guessing what the procedure is. Do you honestly think that’s great management?

If a company employs 16 year olds because it cheaper for them then they have to remember that they are still children and don’t have the experience of older staff! You seem to only be able to see it from your perspective.

You’re missing the main point - a good manager would make sure the staff are fully aware of the procedures for a day off/holiday. It’s shit management ignoring the staff member and not explaining the correct procedure when they have had 2 opportunities.

As I say he’s only 16. When I was booking it, I wasn’t thinking it would be a huge problem at his work.

Why ever not?

All staff have to follow the correct procedure for booking leave in just about all jobs.

Wonder where OP works that this is apparently ok 😂

It's baffling and the age of the employee has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I think the OP may be stuck in 'Mummy mode' and is treating her son's employers like she expects them to allow her some sort of say in her son's employment.

Banging on about him being 16 and only being there 7 weeks shows you think this job is meaningless

You say he "can't recall" being told but I'm willing to bet you're blasé attitude rubbed off on him and he didn't bother to listen.

He had failed to book time off by the correct time frame so the next thing is to find cover. He's been told the correct part of this procedure now

So does that mean the manager has to be mute and can’t explain the process? That’s assuming he was told in the first place.

If you weren’t sure of a process at your work and you asked your manger (even if you had been told but had forgotten) would you be ok with them not telling you the correct procedure? Do you think that’s a good manager?

I didn't hire someone on the basis that their parent got involved with the interview process

So why DID you (hypothetically) hire the 16 year old lad for 7 filler hours a week?

His wealth of experience? His unmatched ability to wow your customers and drive your business forward? 😂

He was hired because he was cheap. That's it. That's the only reason.

Companies that hire 16 year old schoolkids for grunt work over a small handful of hours, to fill in the holes in their rotas, can't reasonably expect any great level of loyalty from them. If they do, they're morons. The kid is going to jack it in, not miss the family holiday.

If you want loyalty from staff and proper following of company admin procedure, don't piss about trying to get staff on the cheap for a pittance. Hire an actual adult.

If you think that that is how good managers work then you must be in a pretty toxic environment. Managers should support and guide new staff not ignore them, what a awful working environment

Did he ASK what the procedure was to book in the future? Or did he ask what he was supposed to do now?

Thank you!! This is exactly my point though you have made it far better than me. 😃 👏

Again, you're deflecting from your own behaviour.

You took it upon yourself to book a holiday for someone who is in employment, without checking to see if they could get the time off.

That's the long and the short of it.

You were quite simply wrong to do it.