To think it is not that easy to 'get a better job'

[EuclidianGeometryFan]

Seen a few threads lately about people with money issues, and on low wages or minimum wage.
Then some posters say things like 'why haven't you got a promotion in the last X years?' 'Why don't you re-train / upskill?' 'Why don't you get a better job?'

As if anyone stays in a minimum wage job for years just for the fun of it!

The job market is a pyramid - there is not enough room on the higher levels for everyone. Even as you age you can't automatically expect to climb the ladder and move up - the maths don't stack up. Not every field of work has a 'career ladder'.
Some people are stuck on minimum wage or not much more, for life. They may not have the ability or skills or aptitude to re-train or get promoted, let alone the time and energy.

It smacks of blaming the OP for not being ambitious enough. Some posters seem to have no conception of what life and the job market is like for minimum wage workers.

I’ve just done a calculation on one of the benefits calculators and they’d get about £230 a month UC here if they were renting. But you’re paying at least £1200/month rent and council tax out of that.

Can you show a screen shot?

a single person with no dependents on £1750 net a month would be getting housing benefit? I think not

My sister always did so called "menial", low skilled jobs. She worked like a dog for all her working life, is now retired and has absolutely nothing to show for it - lives in a tiny rented house and has got the basic state pension. It wasn't because she wasn't capable of anything else, she is an intelligent woman but was always focussed on the short term eg a monthly paypacket. I did suggest to her years ago to do some courses, training etc to improve her prospects but she always maintained that she couldn't afford to and had to work, often 60+ hours per week. Using her as an example, getting a better job isn't automatically easy but sometimes short term sacrifices have to be made for longer term gains and some people are not prepared to do that.

Which will be taxed.

I took the 30p comment as somewhat of an exaggeration. Usually when there is a noticeable step up in responsibility such that those prone to stress/overwhelm from additional responsibility would be put off, the pay rise is more than 30p an hour. Thinking back to my student days working part time in retail, it was something like +£1.50 extra per hour for the supervisor role, and considerably more for assistant manager / manager (these roles were salaried in fact). This was a mid-size clothes store in the 2000s.

What a horrible post.
Sorry I was "blessed" with mental health issues and autism that has meant my working life has been limited to minimum wage roles. I lost in the gene pool.

Oh calm down

You got a short straw in life. And I’m sorry for that.

There is only so much society can do, and the benefits system in the UK stands up pretty well internationally (understatement)

Either way, take the opportunity for extra pay if you want to improve your financial situation, or admit that it’s down to your unwillingness rather than lack of opportunity as to why you’re struggling financially. The problem people have is the notion that it’s always someone else’s fault, which seems to be a pervasive view.

Of course there are instances where people literally can’t improve their financial situation and that’s why the welfare state exists, but there are definitely instances of people choosing not to upskill/seek better pay who then claim to be helpless and lacking in opportunities.

Sure. Although I assume you aren’t accusing me of lying?

If you want to replicate this, it’s based on a 40 year old, single with no children or disabilities, 40 hours minimum wage, rent of £1k/month, council tax band C (both of which are accurate for a 1 bed flat in my local area - local housing allowance is £860 - proof also attached as I doubt you’ll believe me otherwise)

Images currently under review

My friend used to teach computers and had a fairly large percentage of people who returned to education thinking computers were the holy grail and they’d sail into a better job. A huge percentage failed but the sadder thing was he said so many of them worked so hard but couldn’t get it

Absolutely delusional.

Not a useful comparison at all.

And if you're ill? Disabled? Have caring responsibilities? Can't afford to do what you've done?

Excellent argument. Watertight.

Some people like to congratulate themselves on what could be taken away at any moment. I'm sick of it really. I'm going to use a crude example, because I think it's necessary. What if a car smashed into you and you were paralysed and suddenly you were one of those people who should try just a little bit harder to work?

Within my social circle I hear a lot of "oh x person (someone we know) has a well paid job as he has been savvy and moved around every few years, asking for more money every time he went" as if the rest of us just hadn't thought of the idea.

Oh and also, doesn't really work like that for me who works in the NHS! Not a whole load of other competitors around to just move about and blag money out of and such things as pay bands anyway!

It's annoying when it's said as if he has just been sooo smart and the rest of us just need to be more like him - he's mostly just lucky he has chosen an industry where it's possible!

Thinking that the extra £50 a month you will actually see in your pay packet once you have taken out all the taxes etc... some people have student loans. Pensions etc. You will be lucky if you see an extra £5 a month.

I has nothing to do with people not being willing. Some people cannot cope with stress or too much pressure. Why on earth should you cast them as unwilling?

I’d like to see which jobs pay only 30p more an hour for a noticeable change in responsibility / skill, which is what’s being talked about here - upskilling, striving for promotion. Your ‘example’ is a clear exaggeration, just like netting £5 a month from a gross increase of pay of £52 a month is a wild exaggeration. It’s this kind of tiresome excuse making that people are getting sick of, frankly.

Oh, and those on minimum wage wouldn’t be paying back their student loan as they’re under the earnings threshold.

Totally agree.
Support - financial and emotional - and connections build confidence, resilience, opportunities.
Without these many people are hugely disadvantaged.
Really disgusted by your minimum effort = minimum wage comment @LifeBeginsToday

That’s still unwilling, whatever the reason. I actually support people in work not having much ambition and wanting to keep stress to a minimum - it’s a perfectly valid choice. I just think they should own that choice and accept the consequences, which are invariably fewer promotions and lower pay.

Have a look at some of the comments. Some see it as just excuses.

YANBU
I've been really trying to get another job, currently work part time nightshifts in a supermarket. I'm not at all suited to the work and all my previous roles were office based admin. My work history is a bit patchy; 4 autistic DC and I'm really restricted on hours as the younger 2 don't attend a school (1 has EOTIS via EHCP the other EHE).
I have done a couple of online courses to update packages etc. I have never been good at course work and studying; there's no way I could complete a degree. I failed GCSE maths twice, tried again as an adult but dropped out as it's just beyond me.

I really am doing my best and it's soul-destroying.

For some people it is not a case of wanting to keep stress to a minimum. They must keep stress to a minimum or face dire consequences in their health and maybe other areas of their lives. It is not a choice at all.

Low pay full time jobs used to be enough to live on and now it is not. So those people unable to "do better jobs" are left with the very basics in life to live on and expected to be happy for it and not allowed to complain even though it is not their choice.