To think it is not that easy to 'get a better job'

[EuclidianGeometryFan]

Seen a few threads lately about people with money issues, and on low wages or minimum wage.
Then some posters say things like 'why haven't you got a promotion in the last X years?' 'Why don't you re-train / upskill?' 'Why don't you get a better job?'

As if anyone stays in a minimum wage job for years just for the fun of it!

The job market is a pyramid - there is not enough room on the higher levels for everyone. Even as you age you can't automatically expect to climb the ladder and move up - the maths don't stack up. Not every field of work has a 'career ladder'.
Some people are stuck on minimum wage or not much more, for life. They may not have the ability or skills or aptitude to re-train or get promoted, let alone the time and energy.

It smacks of blaming the OP for not being ambitious enough. Some posters seem to have no conception of what life and the job market is like for minimum wage workers.

You have an A in maths Alevel
and you have a degree
and you are… late thirties?
and have worked for two decades in retail but never progressed beyond barely NMW?

Is this in the same company? Or multiple companies? Have you considered the possibility that maybe retail isn’t for you? @Noseylittlemoo ?

Similar to me, also as I'm very good at what I do, they need to keep me where I am,results make the managers above look competent good. They don't want their best people to go higher. They would lose their bonuses.
Promises of 'once the newbies are trained', 'once is achieved' , 'new training is coming, we can see then', to keep you on the hook.
I bailed from it, did something different for a while, but hated being sat at a desk all day. So accepted that a different retailer and lower my expectations.

I really wouldn't. I'm looking to leave my admin job with the council because there's not enough money to give me full time hours permanently, not enough money for me to progress up the pay scale as I was promised, and the low morale is shocking. I was given extra hours two months ago and apparently this was only sanctioned at the two management levels above me and not further up, so I've got to wait another three weeks to see if I'm ever going to be paid for those or I just get my time back. I'm sure DSs driving instructor would love 3 hours of my time rather than cash as payment 🙄.

Why don’t you move company?

I did, earn just as much as a manager at previous place ( just over NMW! 🤔) I've accepted at nearly 60 I'm not going to become CEO..😉 Also, it is a result of being a SAHP before childcare became widely available for low income workers.

Several pages of posts, all about the abilities and qualities and circumstances of individuals, whether they have what it takes to get promoted.

What has got lost in this discussion is the fact that the workplace is a pyramid.
Imagine 50 low paid employees, with 10 'supervisors' or 'team leaders', then just one or two managers above them.
Someone on the bottom level has to wait for a promotion to become available, no matter how talented and determined and hard-working they are.
And moving to another company won't help - the other 100 companies in the sector all have a similar structure, so very few openings arise.
You could have every low-paid employee maxed out on training and upskilling, all bouncing with enthusiasm and dedication, but if the workplace is a pyramid, most people are not getting promoted.

And scaled up, society itself is a sort of pyramid. There is not room on the upper layers for everyone.

So, think twice before blaming poor people for "not working hard enough".

@EuclidianGeometryFan
👏

Sorry I have missed but what’s your work situation op?

Full time in a nice 'lanyard class' job.

Pay?

I could earn much more than I do but it would seriously impact my quality of life. I don't want to commute 2-3 a day to a stressful high workload job, I like my flexible WFH low workload job. If I moved, I might lose my company car, phone and private medical.

I read a thread once where several posters were amazed or basically didn't believe that anyone living in London earned less than 35k.

Of course London averages skew high because there are a greater proportion of people on 6 or 7 figures, compared to elsewhere...but like you say @EuclidianGeometryFan for every CEO they'll be 100+ cleaners, junior admin staff, bar staff, hospitality, retail, supermarket staff, delivery drivers, station staff, bus drivers, nail technitians, nursery workers, hospital porters etc etc and that's before you think about the gig economy. You're more likely to come across someone that earns minimum wage, than someone on 6 figures!

Of course society is a pyramid, human society never had anything different, even communist type of societies were/are pyramids.

But those who are able to progress to a certain level, not necessary in the same org, open own businesses etc. The rest got stuck.

I’ve had a lot of jobs - both high level and lower level when younger and fitting around children - have had a business for 22 years, worked in everything from HR to being a nurse. What I will say is that most people I know who do get don’t count the clock , do stuff out of conventional hours, have ‘ideas’ and frequently are prepared to take significant risks , especially with a business - I appreciate that not all sectors, especially public service have these factors in the mix - however if you want conventional hours, need to leave on the dot, aren’t a risk taker and don’t like your holidays interrupted with the odd call or a bit of emailing then public service jobs may well work, council/civil service etc - a lot of private sector relies on goodwill and going the extra mile to get on . It’s often not always about skill either, brown nosing helps in some businesses or having the right contacts /clients or just being hard faced . And if you are in a niche area but rxceptionally good at what you do then sometimes companies don’t want to promote as they need someone to be a ‘doer’ - it’s easier to bring in someone generalist above you without the skill or knowledge who just ‘manages’ . Frustrating I know, you can almost be ‘too good’ at your job. In some areas though it is possible to get on through upskilking - but you need to ‘take a risk’ - and often pay for training - friend of mine started in care, did various night school and online courses - did 18 months in a hospital Asa health care assistant - went back to care homes as senior care and 5 years later manages 3 care homes . It was a long trawl and she did it with kids but it involved effort and a bit of cash and taking a risk . Sometimes it’s where you live too - if you want a cheaper house and live in an area where fewer opportunities are and more competing for every job then I’m afraid that’s the trade off -

There can be a pyramid like structure in some jobs but they tend to be the unskilled/lower skilled occupations where a disproportionate volume of the workforce are either very young with limited other qualifications or older and attracting people towards the end of their working lives who want less responsibility.

If you are say, 32. You have had at least ten years to gain extra skills and experience that make you worth more to a business than a school leaver. If you are still only on minimum wage surely you take stock and move.

I think a lot of people are scared to take the plunge and move to get better pay/promotions but these days you rarely get either staying with the same employer.

Employers don't want people sitting there for 10 years, they become extremely expensive to make redundant.

I have an A in A-level maths and a degree but it's hard to apply for other jobs when all your experience is retail.

Volunteer as a trustee, secretary or treasurer for a small charity, then look at company secretarial courses and apply for roles in that. Decent money in it, lots of ops to for hybrid work and parent time as well.

You posted on some other threads that due to your ASD you don't see dirt and your family clean your home for you? and that because of this you can't take cleaning jobs?

Anyway, if you worked as NHS cleaner you could become a private cleaner with really good rates (20-25ph), grow your client base, possibly open cleaning business?

What a find!!

My mental health issues have worsened over the years and I now struggle to leave the house without help. I do have family help with stuff at home as I find it too overwhelming to do. That is basic life admin stuff not just cleaning.
I was also a rubbish cleaner anyway and in a lot of ways i am not the same person I was back when I was working. I worked in the NHS as a cleaner over 20 years ago.
I also didnt ask for advice.

I think as this thread shows, the NHS needs to get better at treating mental health issues. It is not right that so many working age people have debilitating mental health problems that prevent them from holding down even a low skill, low pressure job. Yes, that might require more investment in the NHS, but surely that’s more cost effective than people going untreated and having to depend on benefits, not to mention a more ethical and longterm solution.

If you are and were a “rubbish cleaner”
you were lucky to even get the cleaning job
and may in part explain why you and your manager had such an unfriendly relationship

I was working there before nasty manager appeared. It was a different manager that took me on. They were desperate so employed me.
please stop making assumptions about my character. You are making it sound like I deserved to be bullied.

You have just said you were a rubbish cleaner

and it was a cleaning job

I mean…. It’s not unreasonable to wonder whether that might be why you didn’t progress

I’ve moved jobs (well, just about to) but I’ve only managed to get 28k and I’m 41
every job I looked at wants years of experience in that job which I don’t have
I have a degree, a levels, good GCSEs but health issues meant I never did much with them and there’s no real progression in my job. I can’t afford to drop my wage to start again in another area

I used to get a lot of help from the NHS mental health services but now they are so underfunded and understaffed that the bar to access them is very high. There is no long term support anymore. They just try and keep people out of crisis and hospital.
It is the charity sector that has been helping me more now. They have worked with me to set goals for myself and I attend several groups which means I am less isolated and see people who understand me. No bullying at all.